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Thread: gaining fat AND losing muscle on paleo page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    TV's don't cause weight gain, couches do. But that's neither here nor there. Medications that interfere with metabolism and satiety signaling hormones can cause weight gain. Yes, through the mechanism of CICO.

    I also don't think your characterization of how and when warnings are mandated on drugs is accurate.

    It's not about blaming external factors, it's about acknowledging their contribution to a problem and deciding if they are worth continuing in light of their effects, or whether their unwanted effects can be worked around.
    Beat me to it.

    +1

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixie View Post
    hmmm, i might try and make mayo from olive oil, coconut oil is out of budget (as are most nuts, berries, all fish except smoked mackerel and tinned, in sunflower oil! i know, sardines)... with the protein though, how can i up that? i already take the whey for work and working out, and eat 2 eggs every day and feta also... thanks for the dried fruit advice, i can see if i can cut it or replace it with a banana (can't go around lugging 5 apples in the messenger bag though)...
    You can eat more than 2 eggs.

    Olive oil is fine, coconut oil is better since it is satuated fat. I actually made mine from melted butter and it turned into a mayo-whipped butter hybrid and is delicious.
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  3. #13
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    I think you'd be WAY better off eating cheese for protein (regardless of if its "paleo" or not) than sardines in rancid oil. If you were eating cheese before and doing fine, by all means, go back. My personal sob story about gaining fat/losing muscle tone after going paleo is similar. Eventually I realized it didn't matter if my food choices fit neatly into the diet trend du jour if it was causing me to eat more than I need or wasn't giving me the energy I needed for my activities I had to admit it wasn't working and do something different. For me, that meant listening to my body and cutting way back on meats and fats and eating more fresh and dried fruit and dairy. It's just a combination that satisfies me with less food. I was told that eating more fat and more protein would do that, and while that may be true for a lot of people, it just wasn't true for me. I'm a 34 year old female, ex vegan, fwiw.


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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixie View Post
    the listening to my body thing i find exetremely difficult, i don't know what its saying anymore, except for that it want to go vegan, which isn't really a good idea i guess... one of the reasons i quit eating cheese was because i get the same sensation with it i used to get with meat, so overpowering qua taste... maybe i should just eat way more veggs and fruit...
    In my personal experience... Unless I am at an extreme caloric deficit I would gain fat on a diet that is almost all veggies/fruit. Maybe you can accomplish that by going grainfree-Vegan, most likely not. You need some sort of animal source for protein.

    Try eating more animal/protein, replace dried with fresh fruit, stay off fattening types of fats like avocado/nuts (replace with butter and eggs) and I bet you will become leaner in no time.
    ------
    HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixie View Post
    tnx for sharing your experiences, turqoise!

    stay off fattening types of fats like avocado/nuts (replace with butter and eggs)

    why are the avocado's not good though?
    Tons of omega 6 fatty acids. Inflammation. Try eating only animal fats so you get less of omega 6 in general. Also, for some reason I find animal fats satiate me way more than plant fats. I can eat a whole tub of cashews but if you put a fatty slab of meat or eggs scrambled in butter in front of me, I get full fast.
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    HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

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  6. #16
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    Whatever you decide, listen to your own body (and scale) more than what some Diet Dogma tells you is *supposed* to be working. You'll even notice on this forum everyone is following their own plan, constantly twerking, because there is no One Right Way.


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  7. #17
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    I agree with moluv.... To a degree. You need to figure out what works for you, but you should follow a certain way of eating for at least a few weeks to see if it works. If not, tweak again.

    Also, if it is relevant at all... Here is my personal experience on plant fats:
    -every time I add nuts in I stall weightloss or (if I eat more than 1-2 servings) I get fatter.
    -the period of time where I changed nothing except I ate a whole avocado instead of eggs for snack i gained fat. Once I cut it and went back to animal fats I leaned out again.
    -I stopped counting calories for the first time in 2 years after cutting out all plant fats except coconut oil/cream and maintained leanness.
    -I gained fat when I ate "healthy" combo of quinoa/corn/tons of veggies/ 1tbs olive oil/half an avocado/some chicken and tuna... While working out. I lost fat when I participated in the steak & eggs challenge on tons of butter/6+ eggs a day/fatty steak and nothing else.
    ------
    HCLF: lean red meat, eggs, low-fat dairy, bone broth/gelatin, fruits, seafood, liver, small amount of starch (oatmeal, white rice, potatoes, carrots), small amount of saturated fat (butter/ghee/coconut/dark chocolate/cheese).

    My Journal: gelatin experiments, vanity pictures, law school rants, recipe links


    Food blog: GELATIN and BONE BROTH recipes

    " The best things in life are free and the 2nd best are expensive!" - Coco Chanel

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    TV's don't cause weight gain, couches do. But that's neither here nor there. Medications that interfere with metabolism and satiety signaling hormones can cause weight gain. Yes, through the mechanism of CICO.

    I also don't think your characterization of how and when warnings are mandated on drugs is accurate.

    It's not about blaming external factors, it's about acknowledging their contribution to a problem and deciding if they are worth continuing in light of their effects, or whether their unwanted effects can be worked around.
    We're not going to come to an agreement here. I've taken a lot of medications like this myself, and the idea of a doctor lying to a patient about what the medication can and cannot do is repugnant. You may have a different opinion, but doctors shouldn't be lying to patients.

    When all is said and done, lying to the patient about what a drug can and cannot do is one of the more irresponsible things that doctors in routine practice do. Patients aren't necessarily going to be in a position where they understand the intricacies of the medications they're being offered. And by lying to the patient about the nature of the side effects, the doctor is taking the power to avoid the side effects away from the patient.

    This isn't a side effect that a patient is going to be unable to monitor and cope with like some of the medication metabolism issues that crop up, this is something that patients can manage on their own when provided with accurate information. And it's intellectually dishonest to suggest that metabolism changes are just in response to medication. A person's metabolic rate is constantly changing over the course of his life, in response to things like temperature changes and food intake. Holding medication to a higher standard than other causes of metabolic change is absurd.

    In the case of the OP, she's trying to do the right thing, and people are suggesting the medication is to blame. The medication isn't likely to blame, and placing blame on that is, at best, going to lead to a sense of hopelessness. Now, it might be the case that there's something going on here that she can't deal with, but until other options have been exhausted, it's premature to blame the medication.

    As far as warnings go, during drug trials the researchers don't always know what is and isn't the result of the medication. Trials aren't done on people that are locked up on a research facility, so there's no way of determining what precisely it is that the subjects are coming into contact. Consequently, a lot of those warnings don't necessarily apply if you're using the medication properly or are the result of some quirk in genetics that only apply to a small group of people.

    If you choose to believe that conveying to patients that a pill is going to do this to them is appropriate medically, that's your prerogative. Just don't insult folks intelligence by rationalizing why this is somehow magically different than the other myriad ways in which ones can wind up being overweight. It all comes down to proper diet and exercise, the pill is just a convenient fixation.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    What you are saying seems to be that if most people who take a particular medication end up putting on weight, that it's the fault of the all those people and has nothing to do with the drug, right? I would disagree that this is something that we should deliberately discount.

    The human body is not a closed system. It is a delicate biochemical system with myriad of interrelated subsystems that can be easily set out of kilter in many different ways by unintended consequences of medications.
    Essentially all drugs were the weight gain is listed as a side effect, is because it either stimulates hunger or suppresses satiety. Ergo you put on weight because you are eating too much. They don't alter fat metabolism or anything.

  10. #20
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    If avocados caused inflammation, my CRP would have been high. It's not, and I often eat one a day.


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