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  1. #1
    biko's Avatar
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    'VLC is not a good idea'

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    I came across this a couple times now, but, without proper explanation.
    Can somebody explain in a simple way why 'VLC is not a good idea'?
    Also, what is VLC? some say you should stay below 30 net grams daily, some say anything under 150 is VLC.
    Thanks!

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    VLC is under 50 grams.
    LC is under 150 grams. (In some medical studies it is defined as under 40% of calories from carbs. Since normal carb is 50%, you can see that in medical studies there is very little difference between their low carb group and their normal group.)

    There are almost no negatives to LC. There are some issues with VLC that don't come up with LC. The biggest one in my opinion is insulin resistance. At zero carbs you will have higher blood sugar than at some point higher up the continuum. Whether that is something that is negative is unknown (does it have the same biological effect and progression and high blood sugar from high carb?). I am leery of it and go up carbs enough to keep my blood sugar down (75 g / day for my body).
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    Ok, thank you.
    I guess that makes me LC-MC.

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    Loafingcactus-
    Can you provide me with studies that prove that connection? I've been VLC for a substantial time with no problem, but haven't ever read about such a risk. It seems hugely counter to my experience (I was insulin resistant b/f I lost the weight), and my blood sugar is good, but I sure don't want to push myself in the direction of IR.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loafingcactus View Post
    There are some issues with VLC that don't come up with LC. The biggest one in my opinion is insulin resistance. At zero carbs you will have higher blood sugar than at some point higher up the continuum.
    I don't quite understand that. Could you explain ? Thanks

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    I think it is called physiological insulin resistance. The guy at Hyperlipid has a thorough article series about it. I have not read through in detail but you can always check it out.

    EDIT : try this one Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin restisance (8) Guess what?
    Last edited by FrenchFry; 09-02-2013 at 06:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Loafingcactus-
    Can you provide me with studies that prove that connection? I've been VLC for a substantial time with no problem, but haven't ever read about such a risk. It seems hugely counter to my experience (I was insulin resistant b/f I lost the weight), and my blood sugar is good, but I sure don't want to push myself in the direction of IR.
    You don't need a study, you just need a blood sugar monitor. ;-) Plenty of people here have discussed their own experiences with it, and it is discussed by most people who advocate VLC, such as in Bernstein's Diabetes Solution.

    There really aren't studies, which is why we don't know what the long term effect is. For people on SAD with transient hyperglycemia (the best study on this is they took people who happened to get a hyperglycemia measure while receiving unrelated ER care and followed up several years later) or fasting BS over 90, rate of progression to diabetes within 3 years is extremely high. There is no data that I know of about people on VLC.

    For me, if I am VLC I have higher FBS and high peak BS than if I go to 75 g / day... Which is adding one banana or like... Very tiny food changes are huge % changes that make huge blood sugar changes at these low numbers.
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    I read this yesterday. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition - Beyond weight loss: a review of the therapeutic uses of very-low-carbohydrate (ketogenic) diets Buried deep within is the following sentence:
    It is of interest to note that in a recent study in overweight non/diabetic subjects, it was reported that during ketosis fasting glucose was not affected, but there was an elevation in post-prandial blood glucose concentration. This data suggests a different effect of ketosis on glucose homeostasis in diabetic and non-diabetic individuals.
    So VLC seems to work differently in healthy people vs diabetic or insulin-resistant people. People who say "VLC is not a good idea" are speaking perhaps from their own experience, parroting others or else are speaking poorly and should be saying "VLC may not be necessary or beneficial for you over the moderate carb level of the basic Primal Blueprint."
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 190 x 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Loafingcactus-
    Can you provide me with studies that prove that connection? I've been VLC for a substantial time with no problem, but haven't ever read about such a risk. It seems hugely counter to my experience (I was insulin resistant b/f I lost the weight), and my blood sugar is good, but I sure don't want to push myself in the direction of IR.
    By Mark first... Does Eating a Low Carb Diet Cause Insulin Resistance? | Mark's Daily Apple


    And then the article at hyperlipid... Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance

    Just to give you an idea of what we are talking about. Physiological insulin resistance happens primarily at the muscle alone to preserve glucose for body parts that use it exclusively. It's not the same as a Pathological insulin resistance.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 09-02-2013 at 07:08 AM.

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    I bought a BS monitor b/c a friend of mine recommended as she was a big follower of Zoe Harcombe (sp?) Did it for awhile until I got tired of sticking my fingers. Fasting was 73, 1 hour after breakfast around 100. According to the accompanying book I was well within normal, so eventually I stopped. Eventually, after maintaining my weight loss for some time, I found I could add in a few more carbs -- fruit and occasional rice or potato no longer put me in a hunger tailspin, so perhaps they are giving me some protection as well.

    Frenchfry - thanks for that link - I'll have a read.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

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