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Thread: Alan Aragon's Argument against paleo/primal lifestyle (with slide show) page 2

  1. #11
    jakejoh10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    It's clearly a slideshow created as a presentation to be given to a group that thinks that anything that deviates from CW is bad.
    If you're going to talk about fallacies in his arguments, at least don't commit them in your own.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  2. #12
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    I realize that throwing the word "straw man" around is popular on the Internet these days to refute someone's argument when one cannot come up with an actual valid argument with some substance but c'mon guys.... Where's the strawman... You have to give Aragon his due. He took all of the claims that have been made FOR the primal/paleo diet and refuted them with real world research including commonly held paleo beliefs such as decreasing consumption of omega 6, toxicity of sugar, gastrointestinal distress from lectins/phytates and allergies to gluten... These are all the reasons commonly cited for paleo and Aragon has put up a very good argument about why these widely held beliefs may be false.

    All that being said, the standard American diet has so much crap in it, that of course a paleo diet is a large improvement... And overall paleo is very healthy. I don't think Aragon is disputing the fact that the paleo diet is healthy or that it works. I think he is simply refuting the idea that certain foods (grains, legumes, sugar...etc) are necessarily harmful. Not sure what to make of this. I guess at the end of the day everyone has to do what works for them.

  3. #13
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    Who knows if "straw man" is the exactly correct term. I think its close enough in most cases though. This one made me lol..." dairy has an acidic rather than alkaline effect on the body and does not protect bone health". Then he goes on to debunk that. I'm like 99% sure that is a straw man. I have literally never come across a reputable paleo/primal source pronouncing that as a consideration for not consuming dairy. Sounds like he's mixing up vegans and paleo to me. But yeah, most this stuff has actually been discussed right on this forum in even more depth IMO.

    Anyway I think this pretty much sums it up.... seems he mighta read this book:

    Is It All Just a “Paleofantasy”? | Mark's Daily Apple
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-21-2013 at 07:41 PM.

  4. #14
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    I can't find a lot to complain about in the slideshow, though as always, evidence supporting whole grain (or at least wheat) consumption is weak as always, even in comparison to refined grains. I'd be interested to see a trial comparing whole grain and no grain diets, but we're pretty much the only community of people that would really care, so I don't ever expect to see it.

    As for the negative claim about dairy, that's all Cordain, who I've noticed isn't taken very seriously in the greater paleo community. It's not shocking that Mark Sisson's version of paleo that encourages the intake of fatty meat and whole dairy is more popular than the "official" Cordain version.

  5. #15
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    Aragon already trolls himself into nonexistence on pages 9-10:

    Page 9: "Immediate ancestors of modern humans are believed to have evolved in the tropics (i.e., Africa) roughly 200,000 years ago, where the large majority (perhaps 70%) of their diet was plant‐based."
    First, this is false.
    Page 10: "Actual intake of our Stone Age forefathers is devoid of any accurate historical records."

    Which is it, Alan? "70% plant based", or "devoid of accurate historical records?" You can't have it both ways.

    Page 11 features another blatant misunderstanding of the Mercader evidence, showing conclusively that he hasn't read the paper -- just the abstract.

    I'm not going to bother with the rest, as it's all of a piece. And, as has been said, even if you ignore the false and self-contradictory statements, he's constructing a straw man based on Cordain's version of "paleo" from over ten years ago...one from which even Cordain has evolved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Bah, in the history of western thought, Dawkins is nothing less than a wannabe featherweight thinker!
    If you really, truly believe that (and aren't just trolling), you've just <plonked> yourself.

    JS

  6. #16
    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Who knows if "straw man" is the exactly correct term. I think its close enough in most cases though. This one made me lol..." dairy has an acidic rather than alkaline effect on the body and does not protect bone health". Then he goes on to debunk that. I'm like 99% sure that is a straw man. I have literally never come across a reputable paleo/primal source pronouncing that as a consideration for not consuming dairy. Sounds like he's mixing up vegans and paleo to me. But yeah, most this stuff has actually been discussed right on this forum in even more depth IMO.

    Anyway I think this pretty much sums it up.... seems he mighta read this book:

    Is It All Just a “Paleofantasy”? | Mark's Daily Apple
    Yeah, straw man is the right term for debunking an argument nobody's making. This is the case here.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Stanton View Post
    If you really, truly believe that (and aren't just trolling), you've just <plonked> yourself.
    No trolling or “plonking” here, Dawkins is a biologist that also wanted to be a philosophical debunker of religion! Too bad others has already done the debunking so much better 200 years ago, so he was far too late with his shallow criticism! But maybe some bible-belt Americans need a wake-up call though! Sorry for off-topic rant here...
    Whoever fights trolls should see to it that in the process he does not become a troll - for when you gaze long enough into the computer screen, the computer screen will gaze back into you!
    - Gorbag Nietzsche

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    No trolling or “plonking” here, Dawkins is a biologist that also wanted to be a philosophical debunker of religion! Too bad others has already done the debunking so much better 200 years ago, so he was far too late with his shallow criticism! But maybe some bible-belt Americans need a wake-up call though! Sorry for off-topic rant here...
    Sounds like you're unfamiliar with the full body of Mr. Dawkins's work.

  9. #19
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    Yep thats true, I have not read Dawkins complete works in 30+ volumes including all his articles, but I havent read everything of Alan Aragon either...
    Whoever fights trolls should see to it that in the process he does not become a troll - for when you gaze long enough into the computer screen, the computer screen will gaze back into you!
    - Gorbag Nietzsche

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Yep thats true, I have not read Dawkins complete works in 30+ volumes including all his articles, but I havent read everything of Alan Aragon either...
    I didn't suggest you read everything he ever wrote, but that you're unfamiliar with the majority of his contributions. Which is implicit in both your statements regarding the matter above.

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