Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 83

Thread: Eating + Lifting to get Leaner and Stronger - Is it even possible? page 6

  1. #51
    StupidFatHobbit's Avatar
    StupidFatHobbit is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    142
    Primal Fuel
    Hi Mark thanks for the input. You make a lot of sense.

    If I do this what will happen to my lifts? I'm doing SS so will I just be stuck (stalled, on purpose) at the current numbers while trying to lose fat?

    I am doing sprints 1x per week but I was afraid doing more might interfere with recovery.

    I assume you mean my current maintenance cals and not what it was previous to embarking on this...finding out what they are would be the next challenge. I haven't found online calculators to be very useful in this regard.

  2. #52
    MarkG's Avatar
    MarkG is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    17
    No worries. SS is a great program. The great thing about SS is you get a ton of practice on the core lifts which will help you a lot down the road. Most people don't like to hear this but body recomposition goals should be looked at as a lifetime journey. Once you have that perspective it frees you from making short term decisions. If you look at most people in the gym they often never seem to change.

    Anyway going back to SS, rookie lifters CAN actually improve strength while losing fat. In fact its quite common. This is because you are still learning the lift, and over time you will get better at it, more mechanically efficient. As far as stalling dont worry about it. Just make sure you have a very conservative start point with SS which will allow you to progress over a long period. A lot of people make the mistake of setting the start point too high and burning out a month later. Ideally you want to be hitting your max efforts with SS about 2.5 to 3 months in. Once you do stall, just deload 20% and start again.

    Ok back to HIIT, as a weight loss tool there is almost nothing better. When people are looking for MAXIMUM fat loss in a short time I recommend 3X a week. Again this is dependent on individual goals and recovery, age and athletic ability come into this as well. For your average person 2X is the sweet spot. Start with 2-3 sets of sprints and every week add 1 more set until eventually you can do 6 sets in one session. Rest time between sets is highly dependent on individuals, good rule of thumb is wait until your rate has normalized. That can be anywhere from 2-8 min. Remember sprinting is a very challenging exercise, don't go in 100% until your body has had time to adapt. Generally people can handle 60-80% intensity when starting out. Each week aim to up the intensity slightly. For example week 1 you may only do 2 sprints at 60% intensity. Week 2, 2 sprints at 60 and a 3rd at 80%. Week 3, 1 sprint at 60, then 80, then 90%. Also spend at least 10 min warming up with a light jog, incorporate some knee high jogs and kickbacks.

    How you schedule your HIIT is up to you, you can do them at the end of your strength sessions, but you would probably find it easier to put them on different days. This is completely personal preference. Putting HIIT and Strength on the same day means you will have more complete rest days throughout the week. Putting them on different days means less total rest days but more recovery between individual sessions.

    I hear you on the calorie counters, and counting calories in general. Thats why I like to suggest people try a 16/8 IF eating schedule. Aside from the fat burning effects of being in a fasted state, in practice skipping breakfast usually cuts the perfect amount of calories for most people to enable them to lose weight. Also doing HIIT while fasted torches fat like nothing else.

    If you're not into IF it doesn't matter, it just means you will need to track your calories a bit more carefully in the beginning.

  3. #53
    JoanieL's Avatar
    JoanieL is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.
    Posts
    6,960
    You're talking about two different processes here. One is to lose weight in general. The other is to gain muscle mass/strength.

    I liken it to the overweight woman who gets pregnant, eats healthfully during her pregnancy, and finds herself lighter after she gives birth than when she conceived. One process: grow a baby. The other: decrease her body weight.

    You can do both. You have energy stores (calories) in your excess fat. That is why we lose weight when we decrease calorie intake - we use the fat we already have for energy. The difference between you and the pregnant woman would be that you should probably eat with an emphasis on protein (and of course, you're not going to give birth to your muscle increase at the end of nine months). In the beginning, you might not see too much encouragement on the scale. Fat is being burned, but muscle is being built. (In the analogy, baby is being grown, host is burning fat.) Once you have the muscle mass (and strength) you want, a continued deficit will continue to burn the excess fat. But stressing your muscles with exercise and healing them with rest will continue to grow them.

    I agree with YogaBare and Gorbag here and that doesn't happen very often.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

  4. #54
    StupidFatHobbit's Avatar
    StupidFatHobbit is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    142
    I guess I'm answering my own question here, but I've started cutting back on calories (and carbs) and things are getting a lot harder as far as lifting weights go. Kinda takes the fun out of it a bit.

    I might need a different program, called "Starting Weakness", where you decrease the bar weight by 5lbs every session...

  5. #55
    quikky's Avatar
    quikky is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by StupidFatHobbit View Post
    I guess I'm answering my own question here, but I've started cutting back on calories (and carbs) and things are getting a lot harder as far as lifting weights go. Kinda takes the fun out of it a bit.

    I might need a different program, called "Starting Weakness", where you decrease the bar weight by 5lbs every session...
    Starting Strength is not suitable for a calorie deficient diet. If you do Starting Strength you must eat. The amount is what matters. If you're a skinny 17 year old, you eat A LOT, something like Gallon Of Milk A Day (GOMAD) can be appropriate. If you are, say a fluffy 30 year old, you don't eat too excessively, but still eat a good amount to facilitate the rapid growth.

    You cannot squat 3 times a week and increase weight every time on a calorie deficit, at least not for any decent amount of time.

  6. #56
    Jefferson1775's Avatar
    Jefferson1775 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,294
    Quote Originally Posted by StupidFatHobbit View Post
    I guess I'm answering my own question here, but I've started cutting back on calories (and carbs) and things are getting a lot harder as far as lifting weights go. Kinda takes the fun out of it a bit.
    I would strongly recommend against that. Getting strong and losing fat usually require different approaches. If try to do a program with aggressive progression like Starting Strength while trying to lose weight, you won't make much progress on either. Figure out what your main priority is and go from there.
    In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

    This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

  7. #57
    oxide's Avatar
    oxide is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    MD/VA/DC
    Posts
    1,247
    Let me understand this. You threw out the 150 gram carb curve, and the fat came back, and your reasoning for this is that "your body doesn't want to be the lower weight." ? Oh brother, that's like those ladies who are 35 pounds overweight and proudly say "I'm a REAL woman, not a stick." The anthem of the SAD dieter.

    Yo, you didn't gain fat because you're somehow pre-ordained for it. The fat came back because you basically went back on SAD diet. Sure, it was "whole and unprocessed" SAD, but it was carby rice and potato SAD nonetheless. I guess you can lose the fat first and work on strength later. Or you can work on strength and lose the fat later. Or you can do both simultaneously, but it will be a lot slower.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  8. #58
    StupidFatHobbit's Avatar
    StupidFatHobbit is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    142
    Well, I was keeping it in the 100 to 250g range which is well under what I've seen recommended on SS forums (or any other weightlifting sites), but yes that's too high on Mark's curve. I will say it sure did feel awesome, as far as energy levels go.

  9. #59
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    I agree with YogaBare and Gorbag here and that doesn't happen very often.
    We agree on Ayn Rand Joanie. And I also like a banana before bed
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #60
    max219's Avatar
    max219 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    444
    No eating over 150 grams of carbs will not automatically mean fat gain. And no, eating over 150 grams of carbs is not the SAD diet. The SAD includes low protein, high PUFA, lots of grains, and other chemicals. Potatoes and rice and fruit is not that.

    OP, in the last 45ish days I have lost body fat and gained strength in the gym. Go look at my journal to see my pic from aug 1st to sept 17. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1314534

    I ate lower fat (40 or below), but all saturated fats, high protein, and high carb (around 400 + grams). I ate lots of sugar too in the form of fruit, juice, and other sweeteners. I basically ate a high carb Ray Peat inspired primal diet. I also ate between 2500 and 3000 calories most days, coming off a 3 month period of excessive calories.

    I also lifted heavy about 3 times a week, walked and moved a lot, sprinted every 10 days, and ran every few days. My deadlift increased from 175 to 225 pounds, my overhead press from 100 to 115, and bent over row from 125 to 145. (for 4x4s). I slept a lot too. So far so good for me so I will keep at it for now.
    Last edited by max219; 09-19-2013 at 04:54 PM.

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •