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Thread: Fructose & Body Fat? page 14

  1. #131
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Science isn't subjective, but it's wrong a lot, distorted, and cherrypicked and most of these people are gullible enough to believe anything. Any jackass can search for any article on pubmed claiming x is harmful, but they often fail to read the whole article which, is, more than likely in a made up clinical setting with a small sample size of rodents in a short testing phase. Being fed pure crystalline fructose in unreasonable concentrations is a rather absurd for drawing a conclusion that eating fruit is harmful at all.

    I can find hundreds of thousands of similar trials showing that consumption of meat is harmful as well, doesn't make it true.
    This is where objective thinking comes into play. It involves real research, a well-rounded understanding of issues and substantial experimenting. That's hard work. Snide remarks that contribute nothing take 10 seconds to write. Actual understanding and objective thinking is hard to come by.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Thank-you for the condescension.


    Thank you for that, I was already aware of it.


    Uh, kinda irrelevant? You seem to do this all over the place. You come out with a generalisation that isn't universally true, but you state it as if it is (like skinny women being the epitome of beauty throughout history). Then when people call you on it, you dance away to an adjacent topic and start laying down 'facts'.

    So your point is that you want this to be a discussion about how bad polyunsaturated fats are? I'm not arguing with you there. (of course, I recently read a pro-vegan arguement against saturated fats saying that because saturated fats were solid at room temperature then you know, *of course* they clog your arteries simply by their viscious nature).


    The articles make a few assumptions about energy oxidation that I think are not correct. In particular I don't agree that it's always correct to have a goal of an RQ of 1.0 (maximising oxygen consumption). Peter Attia had a decent series on it that included this point:

    But coming back to the original topic, an RQ of 70 is better if you are worried about fat, since that's when your metabolism is burning fat.


    Since both are philosophies with a multitude of components, I don't think that you can say that either are wholly correct or incorrect. In fact, (just like with whole food vegans), peatarians, primals and 'perfects' all have a tremendous overlap. I don't think that the 'carbohydrate curve' has any substance. I'm equally sceptical of drinking any form of coca cola as 'part of a a healthy diet'.
    Rather than respond to this, let's get one thing clear: I don't ask questions on MDA. That's not why I come here. I come here to answer questions people have. Whether or not you listen to me is of no consequence to me. You have absolutely nothing to offer me. If you don't want my advice, don't take it.

    The Primal Blueprint and paleo as a whole is an assumption. PUFA toxicity is a scientific fact.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by thriveful View Post
    I think that, although we all profess to be open minded people, adopting a different way of eating to most of the world, there is an awful lot of closed minds to anything a little off centre from the primal/paleo ethos (if there is a typical one)

    Choco seems like a pretty well self educated guy, what if his idea is right, even partly? We all scoff at CW but even though there is some understanding of diabetes, the diabetic organisations are giving out dietary advice that most of us would consider folly.

    Not long ago, few on hear would have entertained the 'Peat' woe, more are now and seeing good results.

    What if PUFA'S consumption IS the cause of most of these diseases and poor health and obesity, what if grain eaten without high PUFA intake is less harmful than believed.

    You can bet your bottom dollar that in 10 years we will know more, and perhaps the sugar as a poison thing might be debunked, PUFA having to take the blame.

    What if primal paleo eating is only making us healthy because of the drastic reduction in PUFA consumption. The interactions of our systems are not isolated, there is a symbiosis here that is still widely unknown.

    We all have our belief systems and resistance to certain ideas, but this forum of all places should be a great place for discussion, productive debate, and open minds, seems that even us on the 'cutting edge' of nutrition are often as closed minded as the CW folks we condemn
    Well said

  4. #134
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    ChocoTaco369 since you kindly stated you are here to give advice I just wonder what would you recommend as an optimal diet for somebody like me. I'm very interested in what in your option would be considered as correct macros, right proportions of carbs, fat and protein intake (with calories goal and gr limits).
    I'm 167 cm and 57.5kg (5'5" and 127lbs ), so I'm not big but I think my body fat is probably around 25%+ (just a guess, I actually don't know as I have never measured it) and I would like to loose that fat and tone up (I'm active and exercise but nothing chronic). I'm after a lean athletic/fit look, not a skinny supermodel disaster.
    Primal lifestyle is new to me so I'm still in shock of recommended amount of healthy fat consumption and I have just started question whether I should take less fat but more carbs and protein.

    I try to keep carbs around 85gr or at least below 100 gr, but if I slightly exceed on heavy work out day I'm not worried too much. My calorie intake is only about 1500 and I'm tracking everything on myfitnesspal just to get used to to the new way of eating.

    There is an excellent article in today's blog about differences in fat metabolism between genders, but unfortunately Mark doesn't conclude whether women should be consuming less fat...
    So I'm kinda lost and trying to figure out what is the best approach...

  5. #135
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    KiteKasia, have you tried increasing the inter-prandial period (I think it is called like that, English is not my mothertongue ...) ? It's called intermittent fasting in this part of the web. I think that if you do it 2 or 3x week (like skip BF, and sometimes lunch), you can eat whatever youw ant during the evening (if you focus on proteins - carbs and fat don't matter too much but carbs in the evening make you sleep good I think).

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    KiteKasia, have you tried increasing the inter-prandial period (I think it is called like that, English is not my mothertongue ...) ? It's called intermittent fasting in this part of the web. I think that if you do it 2 or 3x week (like skip BF, and sometimes lunch), you can eat whatever youw ant during the evening (if you focus on proteins - carbs and fat don't matter too much but carbs in the evening make you sleep good I think).
    English isn't my mother-tongue either ;-)
    Apparently intermittent fasting doesn't work that great for women, so no point in torturing myself... Should Women Fast? | Mark's Daily Apple
    I eat when I'm hungry if it means skipping breakfast simply because I just don't feel like having it I'm ok with it. But I won't be going to work hungry with a rumbling belly just for sake of doing so.
    I don't restrict my calories on purpose, it's just what I eat (and can see by tracking it)

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graycat View Post
    With that said, my own n=1 -- the more carbs (lots of fructose) I eat more satiated I feel. Basically for me high carb diet = less calories consumed and subsequently weight loss. I also make sure I get adequate protein.
    This was working for me for so long and I didn't even know it. I had to go tinkering around trying to lose more weight and started doing HFLC and I've never been fatter. 😪

    This has all been very eye opening for me you guys, really appreciate the discussion.

  8. #138
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    For Choco:

    I remember when I started on here and some of your writing helped me a lot....I don't agree with a lot of what you say, and at times your tone (and I am sure mine as well) can come off as arrogant. That said, you do put a lot of effort into researching this stuff on your own, and that makes anyone possibly come on a little too strong. I don't always agree with your interpretations, but it's more than most can say.

    Attack the ideas, not the dude. Attacking the dude makes us all look like 14 year olds.

  9. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    Attacking the dude makes us all look like 14 year olds.
    Hehe, I was not even attacking dudes at 14 y.o., more like 7

  10. #140
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    Taking fish oil is a recipe for metabolic syndrome and weight gain.
    Random, but I have a super lean, very fit dog who was started on fish oil for his coat and he got fat seemingly overnight, no change in food or activity, plus he became sluggish. We wrote it off to weather and never bought him more fish oil because we are cheap and it didn't help his coat. Now he is lean again and very active.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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