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Thread: Wheat and It's Dangers? page 2

  1. #11
    Cryptocode's Avatar
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    WiltonDeportes, wait, wait, wait. Here this:What Science Really Says About the Paleo Diet – With Mat Lalonde, in which both Matt and Chris say that yes, the phytates in grains are primarily bound with minerals in the plant and therefore do not leach minerals from the human body.

    However, towards the end of the talk the are strongly recommending Price's cooking procedures for all seeds (legumes), I think.

    Now, I'm a little confused, or a lot.

    What do you think of this?
    "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Yes, it's my opinion that it's the gliadin in wheat that is the problem.
    Yup...

    For the most part. And I don't think the "history books" prove any such thing except that people may have chewed on some grass much the way a farmer would.

    Grains come in.... health declines. It could just be a coincidence, but I'm not overly concerned since we do have ample evidence of HG societies thriving without disease and without grains. Rather just live the HG way.

  3. #13
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptocode View Post
    WiltonDeportes, wait, wait, wait. Here this:What Science Really Says About the Paleo Diet With Mat Lalonde, in which both Matt and Chris say that yes, the phytates in grains are primarily bound with minerals in the plant and therefore do not leach minerals from the human body.

    However, towards the end of the talk the are strongly recommending Price's cooking procedures for all seeds (legumes), I think.

    Now, I'm a little confused, or a lot.

    What do you think of this?
    Good job! That was my original source for thinking phytates are bound. He's correct to say that phytates don't leach minerals *from the body* (from the bones or something). The question is whether or not they bind to other food minerals eaten concurrently. Again going back into my memory bank, I've read recommendations to not eat your high mineral food (meat) at the same time that you eat possible mineral-binding food (grain). However as we saw with my searching on lectin information, meat and grain neutralize some of each other's bad effects.

    There's no clear evidence to stick to a definite meal timing, and but there is clear evidence that phytates can limit a few minerals you might absorb in a meal if you don't do something to "kill" the phytates (cooking, sprouting, fermenting are options to be explored).

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Yup...

    For the most part. And I don't think the "history books" prove any such thing except that people may have chewed on some grass much the way a farmer would.

    Grains come in.... health declines. It could just be a coincidence, but I'm not overly concerned since we do have ample evidence of HG societies thriving without disease and without grains. Rather just live the HG way.
    Having mortar and pestles with significant grain remains is not "a farmer chewing on grass here and there". That's 20,000 year old evidence we've found. Secondly, stone age Californian natives gathered wild grains by the bushel! Read "Tending the Wild" by Kat Anderson.

    As for the argument that HG societies were healthier, correlation does not imply causation.
    1. HG Societies have a natural bottleneck. Infant mortality is so high that only the fittest genes have a chance at life. Modern civilization, by contrast, allows virtually a person with any level of fitness to live.

    2.Then, the HG society spend a life of exercise in the elements. Modern civilization, by contrast, spends no time in the elements and exercises for a maximum of 1 hour per day (on average).

    3. Grains never come to civilization alone. Along with them comes: excessive grain consumption, refined sugars, refined oils, and now, freak GMO plants with megadoses of gluten and starch.

    4. Let me emphasize something from my last point "excessive grain consumption"!!!! I'm not advocating daily grain consumption. In the wild, everything rotates due to the seasons. The body needs variety.

    4. HG societies do have disease. However, there are a few differences. One, they don't have the same bacteria and viruses that our civilization has had. That's why the North American natives were wiped out. Two, their degenerative diseases onset later than our civilization. Three, the vast, vast majority of tribal people do not live to the age of 60 or 70 or 80 for these degenerative diseases to come about. Four, the natives do not know what cancer is, therefore "natural causes" could have easily been actually "cancer".
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 08-22-2013 at 03:26 PM.

  5. #15
    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiltondeportes View Post
    It seems that it's the glutelin that causes most of the problems for everyday, non-Celiacs.
    On what basis do you make that assertion? Have you seen this?


    (also, your thread title is equivalent to "Wheat and It is Dangers?". just saying)
    Last edited by magicmerl; 08-22-2013 at 03:25 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  6. #16
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    On what basis do you make that assertion? Have you seen this?


    (also, your thread title is equivalent to "Wheat and It is Dangers?". just saying)
    I only said "it seems" because that is what Wikipedia said, and I did not have any solid evidence.

    And wow, that is a bad typo.
    Last edited by wiltondeportes; 09-06-2013 at 07:23 PM.

  7. #17
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    I thought I was gluten intolerant and avoided it like the plague for almost a year. Then I started experimenting with some farmers market sourdough (supposedly the fermentation makes it virtually "gluten free"). I quickly and significantly looked fatter. I was convinced that the grains had done some inflammatory type damage to my gut. Then I remembered that each slice of bread I ate was covered in a thick layer of butter and perhaps I was just growing plain fat from overeating. So I still have no idea what to make of grains but I am growing bolder with little experimentations here and there. I don't know what to make of this information because quite frankly I'm too lazy to process all of the biology speak. But I will say this, I have made lots of WAPF/ nourishing traditions baked goods recipes using flour soaked in yoghurt and served them to even my most health conscious and sensitive, aware friends and myself with no ill effects. Besides the pleasure center being triggered by such luxurious tastes and textures. Overeating my be the worst effect of bread eating (for non celiacs).

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