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  1. #121
    steven.kelly's Avatar
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    I've noticed that normally when I post 1 out of 2 responses are sarcastic and don't address my question.

  2. #122
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    I think that's because half the time the people responding are talking not only to you, but to those they perpetually have "discussions" with, even if that person hasn't even commented on your thread. It's sad, really.

    I guess you could say it's like an inside joke... except it's an inside argument instead .

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by magno View Post
    abbreviated version of this nonsense:

    "blah, blah blah. im smarter than you because you're dumb and you lack my scientific knowledge (i'll prove it with a piece of paper in the future, er i mean upon getting a license).
    yuckity, yuckity, yuckity i know everything and youre all idiots because you dont listen to me
    i cant help but share my knowledge with you proletariats because i am virtuous"

    me thinks this is what the creator of this thread meant in asking "what happened to this forum?"

    i am magno
    Ding ding ding - found my new forum crush. Well done, sir? Lady? Either's good.

    Also, I *miss* darth. He was oh so bad, but in a good way. Hell, I'm ready to miss DavidBrennan. At least he was worth poking with a big stick.
    Last edited by badgergirl; 08-10-2013 at 01:11 AM.
    My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60211.html Into RPG table top games? Check out FateStorm and (in development) Vanguard! 3D printed miniatures for sci-fi RPGs.

  4. #124
    Daydreamer's Avatar
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    I no longer spend much time on MDA nowadays because I have a LOT of health issues to deal with, and they weren't solved at all eating a primal diet.
    However, I think it's really sad to see that even on there, the "nutritional war" is omnipresent.
    Why can't we all put our "knowledge" together to help each other, be open minded ?
    I was one of the first to have a VERY negative view on Ray Peat/Danny Roddy (and Matt Stone, but to a certain extent I'm still not quite sure about Matt Stone). I even posted some very agressive posts to Derp.

    Then as time went by and I realized diet wasn't always a holy grail, and could even be detrimental, I had an epiphany. My agressive behavior towards these ideas came from insecurity. Because something could prove my beliefs to be wrong or even dangerous, I ridiculed them and told myself it was bullshit. It was shocking to me, because it's not at all how I usually think.
    Of course, all of this was also encouraged by the fact some Peat followers, in reaction to the misunderstanding they usually get, started to provocate, with "I drink coke all day", "I eat gummy bears"...etc. Because, most of the time, they just want you to think outside of the box. Because even if you already think outside of the CW box, you purposely put yourself in yet another box, which is sad. Critical thinking is the key.
    In fact, what they forget to mention is that they drink ONLY a certain type of coke because of the ingredients (well, even if there is a little controversy about the real ingredients in Mexicoke), and they make their own gummy bears from gelatin and fruits/sugar. It's just two examples.

    I suffer from hormonal problems since the age of 10 (I was conceived by IVF), hypothyroidism being the main one, but it caused hypogonadism, adrenal problems...etc. I could list all of my symptoms if you want me to. I already did to Derp. It's a huge list. I wasn't treated, I saw a LOT of doctors, I spent most of my teenage years being lethargic, extremely sedentary, uncomfortable with my physical health and appearance and told to myself I was "normal". Then I had enough, forced myself to move more even if I thought I couldn't do it, and felt "normal" for a year. I was taller, I had my first facial hair, sex drive, slim face... but I was very thin and couldn't put on muscle mass. I ended up crashing very hard some months later. It was a huge struggle for me to be diagnosed with hypogonadism. DOCTORS let me in a severe state of physical and mental degradation, they didn't bat an eye when I had T levels of a 80 year old guy, I had to burst out in tears to make them run another test.
    2 weeks later I had the T levels of a f*ckin' foetus. They put me on T injections.
    And to sum it up, I started to get better, but it was a rollercoaster. Because DOCTORS don't know shit, at least ENDOCRINOLOGISTS. The injections were too big, too infrequent. I started to aromatize too much of it into estradiol. I started to develop gynecomastia. I started to retain water like a camel. I started to have hot flashes...
    ALSO, the endocrine system is a BALANCE. You can't give a man optimal levels of T, the levels of T of the luckiest 25 y/o guy and expect them to feel good and balanced if they have a shitty thyroid, DHEA, preg, prog, cortisol... It just doesn't work, it's even nearly worse than without treatment. That's what happened to me.
    Doctors, for the MOST part, are just people like you and me, who need to get a job. Most of the time, it's not a moral vocation. And even if it is, their medical education is totally controlled by pharmaceutical companies. This is not an urban legend or a conspiracy theory. This is well documented. The FDA is ruled by Monsanto, the medical education is ruled by the FDA... and so on. So stop using the "Laz is a doctor, Derp is not" argument, it doesn't mean a thing. I respect Laz, I undersand his views. But not because he's a doctor. If he's a good doctor, then hats off to him because it's getting rare. That's all.

    I did a lot of researches because if I don't, I won't get out of this hell. Nobody will find a miracle for me. I already see an anti aging doc in Belgium, in fact, the most respected of them. Yes, I am taking Pregnenolone, yes, I am taking DHEA. My doctor, who is not particularly pro-Peat (but is a Barnes-doc however) and advices a Paleo diet (with fruits) prescribed them to me. All of these treatments are based on LABS and DEFICIENCIES PaleoBird. And Peat doesn't advice people to take hormones if they are in good health. That's downright dishonest of you to claim that.
    These researches led me to discover that most of Peat's writings about thyroid treatment, TSH, thyroxine, for example, are 100% RIGHT. Progesterone too. I don't understand why you're so judgemental about his work when you were the one to go through cancer and win your battle, adopting an unconventional diet despite conventional advices. You should know better.

    I'm incorporating Peat ideas into my overall very primal diet. It's all a matter of context. I'm still hypothyroid (I have toxic liver, high Reverse T3, high SHBG, a lot of food allergies/leaky gut), so it helps me to lower my fiber. I thought eating more carbs would make me gain weight as hypothyroidism causes insulin resistance (whatever I eat makes you hungry in a strange way). It was the case with starches, it's not the way at all with fruits, in fact I lost inches. I eat less muscle meat and I feel better that way. I eat gelatin if I do and it does work. I still have horrible symptoms, I still react to food intake. I don't expect Peat ideas to be a miracle in my case. I just know it makes things less terrible. I have less adrenaline surges, for exemple.
    And I'm grateful Derpamix and all of the other Peat inspired posters were there, because it gave me infos. I don't like Ray Peat's forum, I feel very different from them. Here, young people talk more openly and in a relaxed way about Peat ideas... You think they're harsh, you should frequent the threads they post into. They're friendly, smart, and open-minded.
    I hope Derp will not quit the forum because of that. I think he should stop arguing, because he will do more harm to himself than get anything constructive out of it. Also, his ideas would be accepted much easier. But I understand him, as I understand PaleoBird too in a certain way.

    Take care,
    Young self-caring Paleo-eater from France.
    (So please forgive the strange way I tend to express myself in your beautiful language )

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    I no longer spend much time on MDA nowadays because I have a LOT of health issues to deal with, and they weren't solved at all eating a primal diet.
    However, I think it's really sad to see that even on there, the "nutritional war" is omnipresent.
    Why can't we all put our "knowledge" together to help each other, be open minded ?
    I was one of the first to have a VERY negative view on Ray Peat/Danny Roddy (and Matt Stone, but to a certain extent I'm still not quite sure about Matt Stone). I even posted some very agressive posts to Derp.

    Then as time went by and I realized diet wasn't always a holy grail, and could even be detrimental, I had an epiphany. My agressive behavior towards these ideas came from insecurity. Because something could prove my beliefs to be wrong or even dangerous, I ridiculed them and told myself it was bullshit. It was shocking to me, because it's not at all how I usually think.
    Of course, all of this was also encouraged by the fact some Peat followers, in reaction to the misunderstanding they usually get, started to provocate, with "I drink coke all day", "I eat gummy bears"...etc. Because, most of the time, they just want you to think outside of the box. Because even if you already think outside of the CW box, you purposely put yourself in yet another box, which is sad. Critical thinking is the key.
    In fact, what they forget to mention is that they drink ONLY a certain type of coke because of the ingredients (well, even if there is a little controversy about the real ingredients in Mexicoke), and they make their own gummy bears from gelatin and fruits/sugar. It's just two examples.

    I suffer from hormonal problems since the age of 10 (I was conceived by IVF), hypothyroidism being the main one, but it caused hypogonadism, adrenal problems...etc. I could list all of my symptoms if you want me to. I already did to Derp. It's a huge list. I wasn't treated, I saw a LOT of doctors, I spent most of my teenage years being lethargic, extremely sedentary, uncomfortable with my physical health and appearance and told to myself I was "normal". Then I had enough, forced myself to move more even if I thought I couldn't do it, and felt "normal" for a year. I was taller, I had my first facial hair, sex drive, slim face... but I was very thin and couldn't put on muscle mass. I ended up crashing very hard some months later. It was a huge struggle for me to be diagnosed with hypogonadism. DOCTORS let me in a severe state of physical and mental degradation, they didn't bat an eye when I had T levels of a 80 year old guy, I had to burst out in tears to make them run another test.
    2 weeks later I had the T levels of a f*ckin' foetus. They put me on T injections.
    And to sum it up, I started to get better, but it was a rollercoaster. Because DOCTORS don't know shit, at least ENDOCRINOLOGISTS. The injections were too big, too infrequent. I started to aromatize too much of it into estradiol. I started to develop gynecomastia. I started to retain water like a camel. I started to have hot flashes...
    ALSO, the endocrine system is a BALANCE. You can't give a man optimal levels of T, the levels of T of the luckiest 25 y/o guy and expect them to feel good and balanced if they have a shitty thyroid, DHEA, preg, prog, cortisol... It just doesn't work, it's even nearly worse than without treatment. That's what happened to me.
    Doctors, for the MOST part, are just people like you and me, who need to get a job. Most of the time, it's not a moral vocation. And even if it is, their medical education is totally controlled by pharmaceutical companies. This is not an urban legend or a conspiracy theory. This is well documented. The FDA is ruled by Monsanto, the medical education is ruled by the FDA... and so on. So stop using the "Laz is a doctor, Derp is not" argument, it doesn't mean a thing. I respect Laz, I undersand his views. But not because he's a doctor. If he's a good doctor, then hats off to him because it's getting rare. That's all.

    I did a lot of researches because if I don't, I won't get out of this hell. Nobody will find a miracle for me. I already see an anti aging doc in Belgium, in fact, the most respected of them. Yes, I am taking Pregnenolone, yes, I am taking DHEA. My doctor, who is not particularly pro-Peat (but is a Barnes-doc however) and advices a Paleo diet (with fruits) prescribed them to me. All of these treatments are based on LABS and DEFICIENCIES PaleoBird. And Peat doesn't advice people to take hormones if they are in good health. That's downright dishonest of you to claim that.
    These researches led me to discover that most of Peat's writings about thyroid treatment, TSH, thyroxine, for example, are 100% RIGHT. Progesterone too. I don't understand why you're so judgemental about his work when you were the one to go through cancer and win your battle, adopting an unconventional diet despite conventional advices. You should know better.

    I'm incorporating Peat ideas into my overall very primal diet. It's all a matter of context. I'm still hypothyroid (I have toxic liver, high Reverse T3, high SHBG, a lot of food allergies/leaky gut), so it helps me to lower my fiber. I thought eating more carbs would make me gain weight as hypothyroidism causes insulin resistance (whatever I eat makes you hungry in a strange way). It was the case with starches, it's not the way at all with fruits, in fact I lost inches. I eat less muscle meat and I feel better that way. I eat gelatin if I do and it does work. I still have horrible symptoms, I still react to food intake. I don't expect Peat ideas to be a miracle in my case. I just know it makes things less terrible. I have less adrenaline surges, for exemple.
    And I'm grateful Derpamix and all of the other Peat inspired posters were there, because it gave me infos. I don't like Ray Peat's forum, I feel very different from them. Here, young people talk more openly and in a relaxed way about Peat ideas... You think they're harsh, you should frequent the threads they post into. They're friendly, smart, and open-minded.
    I hope Derp will not quit the forum because of that. I think he should stop arguing, because he will do more harm to himself than get anything constructive out of it. Also, his ideas would be accepted much easier. But I understand him, as I understand PaleoBird too in a certain way.

    Take care,
    Wow. I remember your contempt for Derp's advice re: Ray Peat, etc. Amazing. As one hormonal wreck to another, I sympathize with you and wish you health. It's not black and white, it's extremely complicated, and I understand your frustrations. Here's to finding balance one day. I am thankful for the dedication of people like Peat and Derp who gain absolutely nothing from simply relaying information from one person to another. And I'm appalled by the way Peat is wrongly misrepresented. It's really pathetic, especially coming from people who supposedly reject CW only to become fanatical about the new CW.
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  6. #126
    Legbiter's Avatar
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    I think the Peatards here are more just garden variety attention whores. Eventually they'll get banned or bored.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legbiter View Post
    I think the Peatards here are more just garden variety attention whores. Eventually they'll get banned or bored.
    Or, people will eventually realise that some of Peat's suggestions actually really help people. I have a naive faith in humanity, so I'm going to go with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    Then as time went by and I realized diet wasn't always a holy grail, and could even be detrimental, I had an epiphany. My agressive behavior towards these ideas came from insecurity.

    they just want you to think outside of the box. Because even if you already think outside of the CW box, you purposely put yourself in yet another box, which is sad. Critical thinking is the key.

    These researches led me to discover that most of Peat's writings about thyroid treatment, TSH, thyroxine, for example, are 100% RIGHT.

    I'm incorporating Peat ideas into my overall very primal diet. It's all a matter of context.

    Here, young people talk more openly and in a relaxed way about Peat ideas... You think they're harsh, you should frequent the threads they post into. They're friendly, smart, and open-minded.
    Hey Daydreamer, I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through / have gone through this. I remember your arguments with Derp too. My story is similar in some ways.

    ----

    I've been on this forum for more than a year, and honestly, the information I got here has helped me change my life for the better. Mark and Peat both have amazing ideas but for me, the key ingredient to success was giving up the idea that there was "one true way", and not thinking that one person had all the answers. The debates helped me learn and encouraged me to try new things.

    I won't go into the whole story, but in just six months I have overcome an ED, insomnia, and received a diagnosis for a chronic hormonal imbalance which was ruining my life. For the first time in my life, I am not suicidally depressed (or depressed at all for that matter), I have boundless energy, and am getting truly physically fit for the first time since I was a teenager. I have a full head of hair again, and my skin is glowing.

    None of this can be attributed to one person's ideas. Peat's theories helped me hugely, but so did Mark's. I learned a massive amount from Derp and Zach (and they were two of my biggest supporters in everything that I went through this year. Seriously, they're sweet hearts), but I also learned a lot from Primal people like Dragonfly, Dilburyhound and Zoebird. (And Choco of course, who doesn't fit into any paradigm). I've made some really supportive friends here, and I've learned things about fitness from people like Gorbag, Neckhammer etc. Then there's all the people that contribute to the forum because they're just hilarious (I won't name names, but we know who they are ) I've even learned pieces from all the hack diets.

    This forum is diverse and for some people, diversity is what keeps them learning, developing, and healing. Personally, I'm eternally grateful to this forum and the people here for helping me in my path to health and wellness.

    The bickering is stupid: the debates are not, and for all it's imperfections, I think this forum is great.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 08-10-2013 at 04:30 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #128
    little vase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
    Because even if you already think outside of the CW box, you purposely put yourself in yet another box, which is sad.
    Quoting this so hard.

    I think you should stay. You obviously have a lot to contribute and you need the forums.

    Everyone here is on their own journey and is here for a reason. If you didn't need the forums for whatever reason, you wouldn't be here posting and/or reading. It would be so much better for everyone if we could just let everyone benefit in their own way without all the policing and bullying. There is entirely too much negative energy here. Just try not engaging once in a while.
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Or, people will eventually realise that some of Peat's suggestions actually really help people. I have a naive faith in humanity, so I'm going to go with this.
    Derp exists. He posts his thoughts on mexicoke on this forum, along with others. There's nothing to support your last sentence. Ray Peat is just a another monomaniac quack with a cream to sell and his idiot followers here should be mocked and pitied for being stupid.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legbiter View Post
    Derp exists. He posts his thoughts on mexicoke on this forum, along with others. There's nothing to support your last sentence. Ray Peat is just a another monomaniac quack with a cream to sell and his idiot followers here should be mocked and pitied for being stupid.
    i keep seeing this phrase mexican coke, like it's supposed to mean something important

    and, i guess you can go around acting like a big hairy arsehole because some of the people on this forum like being high carb as opposed to low carb, but i don't see the point in it. it looks like there's some superiority to be felt, and there isn't. why? because no one here is perfectly primal

    what is primal? meats, nuts, veggies, fruits. how do people here interpret that? every damn way imaginable

    but for some reason people are getting a bug up their ass about a small group that advocates fruit and sugar. not veganism. not fruitariansm. just extra fruit and sugar instead of no fruit and sugar

    'ray peat sells progesterone!' mark sells supplements and books (editor's note; i don't begrudge him, he doesn't make me pay for all the info he puts out so i can see the ads and choose to buy his products or not. i'm still trying to make mom read his book)

    'you're a filthy smoker!' yeah i'm pretty sure we have more than a few smokers and former smokers here already

    'mexicoke mexicoke mexicoke!' if you say it infront of a mirror, will the spirit of an angry mexican push a soda in your face?

    'SUGAAARRRRRRRRRR!!!!!' it's a real food. it's preferable to splenda. they like it, so who the hell cares?

    i have yet to see any evidence of a person doing something they didn't want to just because they read it on a forum. if that were the case i'd've become a fruitarian just because the women had such soft pretty looking skin. i didn't because i like meat and too much fruit makes me feel oogy

    looking out for the newbies reminds me of helicoptering parents
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    yeah you are

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