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Thread: What is it with nuts/seeds causing rapid weight gain? page 6

  1. #51
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady D View Post
    The biggest thing I've taken from the evolutionary/ancestral models is that to intentionally eat stuff that's less calorically dense SOLELY in order to be able to eat larger quantities is a self-perpetuating cycle, which sooner or later results in eating less satiating and less nutritious foods that have had bits of their substance removed willy-nilly, like skimmed milk or low-fat chadder, and that then cycles into having to add seperate nutritional supplements - be they gelatine, or vitamin pills, or whatever.

    That's how it's shaken out for me, anyway - in the UK there are plenty of really nice, tasty, great-textured low-fat cheddars and they used to be a mainstay of my diet, but when I made the decision to not eat low-fat anything any more, I realised I could only eat less than half that amount of full-fat cheese.

    Oddly that was still less calories (say 100g low-fat cheese @ 273cals/100g, versus 50g full-fat @ 410cals/100g) and I think that accounts for me losing weight on it.

    JMO and just my experience.
    Right on! You absolutely get it

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    This is quite a wild assumption.
    No, if you read my post carefully you would have seen that I cited it beginning, middle and end as my own experience, it's therefore a verified FACT in my life - it would be an assumption if I said it applied to everyone.

    Having been told low-fat was the best way to be healthy all my adult life, I found liberation in the ancestral health and primal food plans that's really benefitted my life, and I do get that neither of them is, by default, either low-carb or high fat, but that neither demonises saturated animal fat as being innately toxic.

    That encouraged me to experiement and to discover higher-fat food satiates me more, and that I feel better on it.

    You evidently haven't found that, in fact the opposite, and I hear and fully understand that fact, and that your discussion of it on these boards brings an alternate viewpoint to the common tendency here towards restricting or even demonising carbs as a default.

    And you have just stated that you add supplemental gelatine to your own diet, so the statement I made about ancestral health versus less calorically dense foods + supplementation is born out by that, in your case at least. No snark intended.
    Last edited by Lady D; 08-08-2013 at 11:53 AM.

  3. #53
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    when I made the decision to not eat low-fat anything any more, I realised I could only eat less than half that amount of full-fat cheese. Oddly that was still less calories (say 100g low-fat cheese @ 273cals/100g, versus 50g full-fat @ 410cals/100g) and I think that accounts for me losing weight on it.
    Absolutely! You can eat a bunch of not tasty, not filling egg whites, or you could just eat a couple of real eggs, for less than 200 calís and be full. Thatís my experience as well.
    I'm not going to consume a whole chicken with skin, brew the carcass in bone broth and drink periodically throughout the day. Not only do I not have the time to do all that, but the dietary fat load associated is too high for the carbohydrate count I require. Eating this way promotes too much fat gain because it's too much fat for me. I have a feeling most people are in the same boat as me.
    I donít think that is going to make someone fat, without adding a bunch of other stuff too it.

    Even if you reject the idea of eating Ďprimalí, what if you just go back 100-200 years. We werenít eating a bunch of egg whites and skinless chicken breasts, etc.. We were eating whole foods, with little waste. I think people would be a million times better if they just ate like their grandparents/great grandparents.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lea View Post
    I think people would be a million times better if they just ate like their grandparents/great grandparents.
    Boom. This ends the discussion.

    The point is that there really was no such thing as high-carb and low-carb just 60 years ago. It was generally whole foods with relatively low grain levels and less processing. Whether you feel that high or low carb works better for you, cutting out processed crap and concentrating on whole foods is going to get you some sort of results.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady D View Post
    No, if you read my post carefully you would have seen that I cited it beginning, middle and end as my own experience, it's therefore a verified FACT in my life - it would be an assumption if I said it applied to everyone.

    Having been told low-fat was the best way to be healthy all my adult life, I found liberation in the ancestral health and primal food plans that's really benefitted my life, and I do get that neither of them is, by default, either low-carb or high fat, but that neither demonises saturated animal fat as being innately toxic.

    That encouraged me to experiement and to discover higher-fat food satiates me more, and that I feel better on it.

    You evidently haven't found that, in fact the opposite, and I hear and fully understand that fact, and that your discussion of it on these boards brings an alternate viewpoint to the common tendency here towards restricting or even demonising carbs as a default.

    And you have just stated that you add supplemental gelatine to your own diet, so the statement I made about ancestral health versus less calorically dense foods + supplementation is born out by that, in your case at least. No snark intended.
    I did read your statement carefully. What I take issue with is the straw man you created with the low fat lie. The SAD is NOT a low fat diet. Never was, and at the rate we are moving at it never will be. You probably have never eaten a low fat diet (though you may have eaten a low saturated fat diet), and I strongly doubt you've ever eaten a low fat Primal Blueprint diet.

    Your gains have simply come from calorie restriction, whether intentional or unintentional. Fat restriction in the context of real food - chicken breast vs chicken thigh, pork loin vs pork shoulder, tuna vs salmon - would likely accelerate fat loss. Don't confuse low-fat dieting with processed junk with a lower fat Primal approach. They are two very, very different animals. Your entire post was a straw man because you're comparing a low fat processed food diet with a high fat Primal diet and concluding that low fat diets are bad. Processed vs unprocessed is your straw man.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-08-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantare View Post
    I must say that water retention is an issue I've found frustrating to nail down. I get it periodically and the facial bloating makes a night-and-day difference in my appearance as well as adding several scale pounds. It doesn't ever seem to be as simple as 'too much salt' or 'eating too many carbs'--there are certain foods I suspect strongly including dairy, eggs, cashews, and dry-roasted almonds (all favorites, unfortunately). Dosages are important as well.
    Agree with everything here. It took some time but I pinned down the foods to your exact list above. While midsection bloating can be uncomfortable, facial bloating is very frustrating and noticeable.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I did read your statement carefully. What I take issue with is the straw man you created with the low fat lie. The SAD is NOT a low fat diet.
    Hmmn, I'm trying to reply positively and constructively here, in good faith and with "positive regard" so let's not get into accusations of "straw men," "lies" and shite like that, okay? Or, don't, but then this becomes about point-scoring and not any kind of rational discussion of nutrition, personal differences, and so on.

    Going back to addressing your statements, I never ate the so-called SAD, 1. I'm British, 2. I was vegetarian and NOT the type that lives off chips (fries) and chocolate, instead the type that reads up on nutrition, balancing proteins from veg sources etc, has three different types of pasta and lentils in their cupboard at all times, and stays keenly aware of food and nutrition - whioch is how I found the stuff that eventually led me here.

    I did however eat a very low fat diet (it's not a lie, it's what's promoted as healthy, and for years I believed it - I did it, I was there, I know!) and found that this meant I was eating larger quantities of food in order to feel as satiated as I do, now, eating smaller amounts of the versions that don't have their fat removed.

    You probably have never eaten a low fat diet (though you may have eaten a low saturated fat diet), and I strongly doubt you've ever eaten a low fat Primal Blueprint diet.
    I did meticulously eat a low-fat (veg, poly-, mono-, saturated, you name it) diet for months on end, for many years, until the cravings for some goddam butter got to me every now and then, and I had to cave in. That would be maybe 250g butter scarfed down every 2 or 3 months, at the most, and usually within a couple of days.

    I worked in the entertainment industry for 15 years and had genuine financial incentives to maintain a certain weight, and under the advice I believed at the time, fat was the calorically-dense thing I was best advised to cut out - so, £££ incentives there, I did exactly that.

    However I never claimed to have eaten a low-fat Primal Blueprint diet - you're rebutting a statement I never made there.

    Your gains have simply come from calorie restriction, whether intentional or unintentional.
    A fact I acknowledged when I spelled out the precise calorie amounts of the higher fat cheddar versus the lower fat, and the different amounts that I found were enough to be satisfying.

    Your entire post was a straw man because you're comparing a low fat processed food diet with a high fat Primal diet and concluding that low fat diets are bad. Processed vs unprocessed is your straw man.
    No, it's not, you're making huge assumptions about me that are wholly incorrect and reacting to those rather than the specifics I posted about. I specifically mentioned cheddar, a fairly basic and non-processed product in itself, as my example of how a higher-fat item is more satiating for me than its lower fat, equally nice, alternative.

    I have never eaten that kind of processed-food heavy diet, the closest I ever got to processed was tinned beans in water (butter beans, red kidney beans etc), tinned tomatoes (nothing added, just plum tomatoes in juice) and plain frozen veg, and low-fat cheddar and yoghurt which were plain and not gunked up with chemicals, but technically I didn't make them with my own hands... I was buying organic wheolwheat bread until I stopped eating gluten but everything else cooked was from ingredients.

    It is quite easy to eat that way, affordably, in the UK, and perhaps more common than in the States, so perhaps your misinterpretation there is more of a cultural thing?
    Last edited by Lady D; 08-08-2013 at 01:16 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by accidentalpancake View Post
    Boom. This ends the discussion.

    The point is that there really was no such thing as high-carb and low-carb just 60 years ago. It was generally whole foods with relatively low grain levels and less processing. Whether you feel that high or low carb works better for you, cutting out processed crap and concentrating on whole foods is going to get you some sort of results.
    Exactly! I have no idea what people ate "back then" in any time period really although we can assume from reading here and there. But what I do know is my great grandmother, who is 97, eats very little processed junk and watches her sugar content meticulously to the extent she counts out a serving of grapes. She is a diet controlled diabetic and on no medication for it what so ever. She is also healthier than any 97 yo I know and weighs in at around 90lbs soaking wet in her 5 ft frame. She's strong enough to live on her own at her age and I admire that!

    The reason I desire to delve in deeper is because I have endocrine disorders, difficulty building muscle, and higher fat % than I'd like. It's not as simple as cals in vs cals out although that does play a part especially due to my anorexic background as a child. Now I tend to over eat if anything. It's not as simple as eat what your body wants or what makes you feel good. What happens when you lack stomach hunger, or you lack the "normal" hunger signals, or misinterpret signals? This is why I am digging. I want more out of it and lack the time to go research every single topic to decide what's best for me. I appreciate people's experience and knowledge/opinions. I find it incredibly helpful! However, it does become incredibly difficult when there seem to be so many ways of thinking. What I take away from it is everyone is different and we can learn from their experiences in helping decide what's best for our own body.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by lea View Post
    Absolutely! You can eat a bunch of not tasty, not filling egg whites, or you could just eat a couple of real eggs, for less than 200 cal’s and be full. That’s my experience as well.

    I don’t think that is going to make someone fat, without adding a bunch of other stuff too it.

    Even if you reject the idea of eating ‘primal’, what if you just go back 100-200 years. We weren’t eating a bunch of egg whites and skinless chicken breasts, etc.. We were eating whole foods, with little waste. I think people would be a million times better if they just ate like their grandparents/great grandparents.
    Quite right! This is the crux of reading things like Weston Price. You can really glean a lot from that work. Its not nearly as theoretical as pontificating about what our ancestors ate or how they ate it 40,000+ years ago. Its first person account of how traditional groups are eating just prior to us mucking up the food supply. You can take that data and cross it with what we know about the onset of agriculture and what is written about paleo/primal.... and IMO you've got a rock solid starting point for THE human diet.

    Its what drew me to Primal rather than the old school "paleo" in the beginning. Its obvious to me that Mark designed primal around that idea.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-08-2013 at 02:44 PM.

  10. #60
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    Just because it's good for you doesn't mean it makes you immune to weight gain..

    If I drink olive oil and coconut oil by the cup and exceed my calories burned I'm going to get fat.. Same goes for garbage food, I could eat twinkles and pizza and lose weight if I wanted.

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