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Thread: Evolution of training page

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    Vick's Avatar
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    Evolution of training

    Hey Neckhammer... I've started this thread so we don't hijack the other thread.

    One of the problems I have with the concept of training to fatigue is I still having enough gas in the tank to have the strength to perform when required. I referee minor and high school football. During the season I quit lifting... saving myself for the field.

    I do agree with your, method of resistance training and working to improve the VO2 max

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    Yeah, I was actually thinking that after a couple posts. Good idea.

    I was sticking to BBS big five for almost a year before I decided, "Hey I'd like to learn to deadlift real heavy"... plus I figured it would take care of that extra metabolic work I'd been missing. So added that in. Then I decided hey I wanna do overhead barbell presses...added that. Next thing you know I was up to 2 whole very intense HIT style workouts a week. It works for bit, but I kinda have stalled for a few weeks now and I'm pretty sure taking some time off and spreading my splits out will do the trick.

    So yeah, at 1x/week I made steady progress. At 2x/week still made progress, but I haven't kept good enough record to determine if its close to the 1x/week.... plus being that 2x came after 1x you could argue that my gains were going to decrease regardless.

    So now I'm gonna try 1x/5 days, but I'm going to do the Mike Mentzer type split. Chest/Back, Legs/Abs, Shoulders/Bi/Tri, Legs/Abs.... This is a bit funny to call it a body part split cause each one of these is more like whole body. The Chest/Back days has deadlift for instance. So yeah, should be interesting.

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    I quit lifting for about 6 months. I tried sprints rowing etc, but I just didn't get into it.

    I got back into lifting early June. (Ok... here it comes.) I've taken a modified approach combining the concepts of Barry Ross and Gray Cook.

    You only have to look at the last winter olympics and the perfromance of the Chinese women's speed skating team to really appreciate Ross' method.

    Gray Cook... well his results also speak for themself, while we know there are those who dispute his methods.

    So now I do 1 set of 1 rep each side of a Turkish get up using a dumbell. I lower the weight 5 lbs and I do 1 set of 1 rep each side. I do 5 sessions then I up the weight 5 lbs to the next dumbell. The TGU requires focus and confidence before you take it up the next notch. I've come to the conclusion it wouldn't be healthy dropping a 40 lb dumbell and having one's head in the trajectory path.


    After the TGU's I then follow Ross' method of a deadlift. 3 reps at 95% 1RM followed by 5 reps at 85% 1RM. The reps only go up to the knee, keeping the weight in the lower range of leverage. The key is not to go to failure, but keeping some in the tank.

    After that, I do 3 sets of 2 reps each set of Torture twists. The goal is to get myself up to 3 sets of 5 reps.

    I do this routine 1 to 3 times a week depending upon my schedule.

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    Wow, so you have really increased the volume comparatively. Seems we both got interested in the dead lift, which is kind of funny. I've seen the TGU with kettlebells and with dumbbells on video.... seems that a keetlebell sort is a bit more biomechanically strong/safe. Do you prefer the DB? I know quite a bit about Gray Cook, but haven't read much on Ross. I'll check him out. I'm a stickler for my form on the dead lift though, so may not muck around with it too much.

    With the program I'm going to I will only be deadlifting 1x/20 days..... should be interesting. The full body routine from BBS was great, but I think the split will help to keep me from feeling utterly drained for 2 whole days after the lift. Like you I've got stuff to do outside the gym, and hitting every major compound lift in one session was becoming a bit too much I believe. I still go to failure plus a 5 second static.... but my cadence has dropped to more of a 4/4 or 5/5.... I move the TUL around with heavier or lighter weights once in a while too, but tend to keep it in the 45-90 second range.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-07-2013 at 06:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Wow, so you have really increased the volume comparatively. Seems we both got interested in the dead lift, which is kind of funny. I've seen the TGU with kettlebells and with dumbbells on video.... seems that a keetlebell sort is a bit more biomechanically strong/safe. Do you prefer the DB?
    If you're up to it, try it with a barbell. The length works kind of like a balancing stick (does that thing have a name?) that tightrope walkers use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    If you're up to it, try it with a barbell. The length works kind of like a balancing stick (does that thing have a name?) that tightrope walkers use.
    The gym I use isn't the best equipped but they have have the rubber coated dumbells that go up to 90 lbs. Once I hit the 90 pounder, then my plan is to back off on the weight and switch to barbells.

    I actually started with a 2 lb dumbell just to get the mechanics down before I started to add on the weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    The full body routine from BBS was great, but I think the split will help to keep me from feeling utterly drained for 2 whole days after the lift. Like you I've got stuff to do outside the gym, and hitting every major compound lift in one session was becoming a bit too much I believe. I still go to failure plus a 5 second static.... but my cadence has dropped to more of a 4/4 or 5/5.... I move the TUL around with heavier or lighter weights once in a while too, but tend to keep it in the 45-90 second range.
    What intrigued me with Ross is not going to failure. One of his trainees is a 130 lb girl that dead lifts 405 lbs. She is a sprinter.
    I am really curious to see how this works out. I substitued the TGU for the bench press.

    My logic is as we age and lose mobility we lose the ability to pick ourselves up should we fall. That is why I started doing the TGU's.

    I don't feel too bad after a work out, but the torture twists have earned their name.

    Torture Twists - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    If you're up to it, try it with a barbell. The length works kind of like a balancing stick (does that thing have a name?) that tightrope walkers use.
    haha.... now that would be some insane tension/ balance work. I've actually never even tried a turkish get up. Just watched the obligatory youtubes of it. Might give it a whirl sometime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    What intrigued me with Ross is not going to failure. One of his trainees is a 130 lb girl that dead lifts 405 lbs. She is a sprinter.
    I am really curious to see how this works out. I substitued the TGU for the bench press.

    My logic is as we age and lose mobility we lose the ability to pick ourselves up should we fall. That is why I started doing the TGU's.

    I don't feel too bad after a work out, but the torture twists have earned their name.

    Torture Twists - YouTube

    Makes sense to me.... and so I don't sound like a HIT zealot I do think its been shown that you don't necessarily have to train to failure to gain size or strength. I think training to failure simply ensures that you hit an intensity appropriate to stimulate the response should you not be interested in higher volume programming. Even when I was doing higher volume though I almost always pushed toward muscle failure though.....just part of my nature to push things to the enth degree. Thats what made HIT a better fit for me. As I get a few more years under my belt, something is probably gonna have to give.... volume or intensity..... I have no idea how to dial back intensity psychologically so its gonna have to be volume.

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    I quote this from Dr. Carpenelli: Continue each set until it becomes difficult to maintain good form. (The level of effort required for optimal strength gains is unknown.)

    I've always used that as my gauge for failure. Today was a perfect example. I did my TGU's, then went to the deadlift. I was at a new weight, and got my three reps. My second set is 20 lbs. lighter. I got in 2 reps but once I felt the third rep was going to be a huge struggle I quit and lowered the weight. Next session I'll be at the same weight going for 5 on the second set.

    In the past I would have fought to get that rep completed.

    I agree with your dialing back the volume and keeping up the intensity, as time goes on. When I first started, I kept reading when you stall, take a week off. You will come back stronger. I asked the question if that is the case why not build time off into the routine? If you go to failure you need the time off. I'm thinking not going to failure will require the time dedication of three sessions a week to get stronger.

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