Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 59

Thread: Evolution of training page 2

  1. #11
    Gorbag's Avatar
    Gorbag is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    4,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    As I get a few more years under my belt, something is probably gonna have to give.... volume or intensity..... I have no idea how to dial back intensity psychologically so its gonna have to be volume.
    It is possible to do BOTH with ramping up to a few all out sets beyond failure! And Mentzer and Art Jones was wrong about that you must progress from workout to workout; it is also fully possible to dig yourself down with accumulated fatigue for weeks or months on high volume and then reduce volume and upping the intensity and then get the "long term delayed training effect"(ltdte) – that’s what I am doing in my periodization, and this principle has been known for at least thirty years now, since it was common knowledge by athletes already around the beginning of the eighties...
    Being just an old fashioned guy myself; I’m beyond tired of all these fragile mama boys (and girls!) with powder in their gluteus and soft pillows under their arm pits that cannot recover from their 3 days a week abbreviated “strength” routine…

  2. #12
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    It is possible to do BOTH with ramping up to a few all out sets beyond failure! And Mentzer and Art Jones was wrong about that you must progress from workout to workout; it is also fully possible to dig yourself down with accumulated fatigue for weeks or months on high volume and then reduce volume and upping the intensity and then get the "long term delayed training effect"(ltdte) – that’s what I am doing in my periodization, and this principle has been known for at least thirty years now, since it was common knowledge by athletes already around the beginning of the eighties...
    Well that is one way... I actually fibbed a bit. I tend to get a decent amount of volume in my normal day to day. It's in a much more "grease the groove" sort of way though. I'm just an always active guy. I cant sit still. I pop up to wrestle the kids or learn how to do a back flip... kip up... do some random muscle ups at the park.... do some one leg pistols or one arm pushups for fun throughout the week. I make em all a part of my day though.... It isn't like I'm aiming for a number or even counting for that matter. I'm pretty sure I'm just ADHD and this helps me maintain normality.

    What I can say is all that stuff above is fun! I enjoy it... whereas training is fun, but its still business. I'm gonna lift that damn weight no matter what! Psyched up and its both physically and mentally draining enough that I'm not "wanting" to do it again any time real soon. I'm a glutton for punishment (have to be being a wrestler), but I've dialed it back these days. Oh, one last thing that pec rupture really did a number on me for a while psychologically. Tough to get under some real heavy weight and expect your body to produce results after it gave out so completely that one fateful time. But, I got over it.... shit happens. Figure what you did wrong and move on.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-08-2013 at 05:36 PM.

  3. #13
    Vick's Avatar
    Vick is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    604
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    It is possible to do BOTH with ramping up to a few all out sets beyond failure! And Mentzer and Art Jones was wrong about that you must progress from workout to workout; it is also fully possible to dig yourself down with accumulated fatigue for weeks or months on high volume and then reduce volume and upping the intensity and then get the "long term delayed training effect"(ltdte) – that’s what I am doing in my periodization, and this principle has been known for at least thirty years now, since it was common knowledge by athletes already around the beginning of the eighties...
    You really can't say the Jones was wrong. His system wasn't perfect, but as this article points out, he made great strides in educating the fitness community. Mentzer was one of the first to discover when you stalled take time off and you will come back even stronger.

    Total Conditioning the Arthur Jones/Nautilus Way
    I would argue that the principle of periodization has been around since the eighties as "common knowledge". It was starting with the likes of Charlie Francis but many coaches still just beat the crap out of their athletes in the name of building endurance.


    The best workout program is the one you enjoy. It keeps you at it. After you find that then fine tune it to improve your health and goals.

  4. #14
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,084
    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    You really can't say the Jones was wrong. His system wasn't perfect, but as this article points out, he made great strides in educating the fitness community. Mentzer was one of the first to discover when you stalled take time off and you will come back even stronger.

    Total Conditioning the Arthur Jones/Nautilus Way
    I would argue that the principle of periodization has been around since the eighties as "common knowledge". It was starting with the likes of Charlie Francis but many coaches still just beat the crap out of their athletes in the name of building endurance.


    The best workout program is the one you enjoy. It keeps you at it. After you find that then fine tune it to improve your health and goals.
    Good link, and as to the bolded you are correct. Really there may be an "optimal" program for you. But if you are bored to death or just WILL NOT COMPLY then its worthless, cause you wont do it.

    Tell ya one thing I like about the Mentzer book is that he flat out states.... gaining 5lbs of pure muscle a year would be terrific! No grandous proclamations of 30lbs/month or something silly. 5lbs is realistic and I would be happy to get that for the next couple years.

  5. #15
    canuck416's Avatar
    canuck416 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Sebastopol, CA
    Posts
    1,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    It is possible to do BOTH with ramping up to a few all out sets beyond failure! And Mentzer and Art Jones was wrong about that you must progress from workout to workout; it is also fully possible to dig yourself down with accumulated fatigue for weeks or months on high volume and then reduce volume and upping the intensity and then get the "long term delayed training effect"(ltdte) – that’s what I am doing in my periodization, and this principle has been known for at least thirty years now, since it was common knowledge by athletes already around the beginning of the eighties...
    I am a big believer in periodization. I try to schedule my programming with several peak periods (each a slightly higher peak) throughout the year. Built in periods of intensity followed by periods lower intensity, rest and recovery has worked well for me. I do the same with my diet macros to coincide with my training intensity.

  6. #16
    Vick's Avatar
    Vick is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    604
    Gorbag and Canuck 416
    How many weeks does your intensity period last? How many weeks for your low intensity?
    I am also curious about matching the diet macros.

  7. #17
    Gorbag's Avatar
    Gorbag is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    4,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    You really can't say the Jones was wrong. His system wasn't perfect, but as this article points out, he made great strides in educating the fitness community. Mentzer was one of the first to discover when you stalled take time off and you will come back even stronger.
    Both Mentzer and Jones were biased extremists in their opinions and they have very few followers, if any, among professional athletes. Their view that you must progress from workout to workout works to a certain degree for newbies or when regaining lost strength, as Jones "proved" on Casey Viator in his infamous Colorado experiment - and it may also work when coming from high volume training when reducing fatigue will give a boost for super-compensation! But the premises behind their theories are still wrong. Other Hit system such as used by Yates or Doggcrapp makes much more sense though IMO… But Jones and Mentzer were right about one important thing; intensity matters, and that going to failure or close to failure is very important from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    I would argue that the principle of periodization has been around since the eighties as "common knowledge". It was starting with the likes of Charlie Francis but many coaches still just beat the crap out of their athletes in the name of building endurance.
    Common knowledge among serious athletes at least, and personally I started to learn about periodization already in 1978 at the age of 15! And when going to “sports school” in 1980 athletes from all kind of sports used both long term and short term periodization. The most common system for a year was to ramp up volume off season, and train yourself down into the cellar so to say – and then after some months little by little reducing volume, and train much more intense before the important competitions. So volume goes down intensity comes up and high intensity contest specific training of short duration replaces high volume…
    Being just an old fashioned guy myself; I’m beyond tired of all these fragile mama boys (and girls!) with powder in their gluteus and soft pillows under their arm pits that cannot recover from their 3 days a week abbreviated “strength” routine…

  8. #18
    Gorbag's Avatar
    Gorbag is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    4,340
    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    Gorbag and Canuck 416
    How many weeks does your intensity period last? How many weeks for your low intensity?
    I am also curious about matching the diet macros.
    It depends, but I have recently stayed for 7 weeks on very high volume, 5-6 days a week weight training, and right now I am doing 4 days a week for four weeks doing a split for monday, tuesday and fullbody on thursday and saturday, and I plan to reduce to three days a week doing high intensity training similar to Doggcrapp...
    Being just an old fashioned guy myself; I’m beyond tired of all these fragile mama boys (and girls!) with powder in their gluteus and soft pillows under their arm pits that cannot recover from their 3 days a week abbreviated “strength” routine…

  9. #19
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,084
    I've always done heavy strength training for 4 months, then wrestled for 8 months of the year. This had its own inherent periodization cause your not gonna hit the mat for a couple hours a day 6x/week, plus cut weight, plus expect to make gains in the weights. So this is an 8 month cut 4 month bulk and strengthen cycle I repeated for 15+ years. But now that there is no 8 month cut, and there is no deadline to get as strong as can be before season starts I can appreciate the long view. Both HIT and periodization make sense. HIT proponents would say that periodization is simply working out efficiently for a time then working out inefficiently while you recover. So HIT would claim to just build in the proper amount of rest and recovery rather than work out inefficiently. From a tissue repair and remodeling stand point this makes sense for both groups. High intensity creates the damage and inherent inflammatory response required for growth and low intensity moves blood through the muscles aiding in the healing process. However, I think you can get that low intensity flow going with an active lifestyle just as well (see my stuff earlier). So in the end I could make a case for either AND since muscle/lean mass growth is such a slow process it would be really hard to prove one or the other given individual genetic variance. HIT works for my lifestyle better.... but if I ever get bored I'll switch it up.

  10. #20
    canuck416's Avatar
    canuck416 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Sebastopol, CA
    Posts
    1,316
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Over the years when I am focusing on training I generally set up my schedule so that periodization takes place in 4 week cycles which last for 3 months. The first three weeks of each 4 week cycle see a weekly build up of intensity and the final 4th week is of very low intensity. Each succeeding week begins at a greater level of intensity than the week before so the third week is the hardest (The beginning of the second week in the cycle is harder than the beginning of the first week in the cycle and so on). I like to completely change up the program every 3 months. I just finished up 3 months of an Old School 70's style bodybuilding routine. There's a list of the exercises, days trained and body parts trained listed in this blog I recently did for Peak Performance -

    http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...n-saville.html
    Last edited by canuck416; 08-09-2013 at 02:56 PM.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •