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Thread: Primal with MOAR Peat: Food & Hormone Discussion (Ray Peat Followers) page 95

  1. #941
    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Guys, what do you all think of this?

    If passed, S. 959, the FDA Power Grab Bill, would inevitably lead to the banning of your bio-identical hormones. It must be defeated.

    Today I am in Washington D.C. This is the day in the battle to defeat S. 959, the FDA Power Grab Bill. I will be meeting with eighteen congressmen and US Senators over the next three days and I desperately need your support.

    Here is my video message to you: Urgent Message from Dr. Steven Hotze - YouTube

    Your right to use bio-identical hormones and compounded medications is under severe attack by Big Pharma, the FDA and their allies in the U.S. Congress. If enacted, the proposed U.S. Senate bill S. 959, the FDA Power Grab Bill, would destroy compounding pharmacy and cause irreparable damage to your health and that of millions of Americans who depend upon compounded bio-identical hormones.
    - See more at: Defeat S. 959, The FDA Power Grab Bill

    See more:

    Defeat S. 959, The FDA Power Grab Bill

    Original bil:

    Pharmaceutical Quality, Security, and Accountability Act (S. 959) - GovTrack.us

    Would this impact us using topical progesterone?

    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    YB, that's so awesome though! I think it's important to eat only what you like and not what you feel obligated to. You're doing it right. Now you just have to make some minor tweaks to perfect it, which is no big deal. You'll get there.
    Thanks J3nn! I know- progress seems slow when you're only focusing on one thing (weight / sleep), but there are so many other things in my life that are improving. it's important to keep the big picture in mind. Life is not a series of details: it's an overall impression. That's the difference between small focus and large focus...

    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoMom View Post
    What conditions are you sleeping in? Make sure you are incomplete darkness all night, go to sleep by 9 if you can but no later than 10 and wear orange glasses after the sun goes down to block out blue light (when you're at home I feel like 90% of my gains in adrenal health came from the above habits.

    I know your sleep isn't always the best but remember that the sleep you get in the hours before 12 are the most important. Better to go to bed early and wake up in the wee hours of the morning than to close your eyes late in the day.
    Thanks PM I do go to bed pretty early, but my housemates don't, so most of the time they wake me. My room isn't that dark.. I'll look into buying a blind or something. I'll also try red light therapy - I have a lamp, just need to get a stand...
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  2. #942
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Potato soup requires cooking.. But actually, that's a good plan for winter.

    I've just been rereading Roddy's take on on Peat's take on stress hormones. It's pretty interesting. I missed all that before about how cortisol is needed to break down protein, so if you're on a high protein diet you're going to produce more cortisol. Crazy. It's another bit of evidence again CICO. Eating protein protein wont make you more lean if you've already got high cortisol... Weight is really a hormonal dance.

    Becoming Stress Proof Part III
    Hi YB, Forgive me if i ruin the vibe of this thread momentarily, I don't mean to, I don't mind what all ya's peaties eat (we can discuss else where if this reply gets too heavy). that article you linked erks me (and part 1 and 2), let me explain.

    Roddy is just rattling off the "secondary" catabolic hormones, except for estrogen which is a "secondary" anabolic hormone. In that article he neglected to mention the primary catabolic hormone; glucagon - the direct antagonist of insulin, made in the master adrenal gland, the pancreas, along with insulin. Glucagon controls and also does the job of many of those secondary catabolic hormones,

    *it breaks down protiens, like cortisol (it will even engage the help of cortisol if the dietary protien load is big)
    *it converts/releases liver glycogen, like adrenaline. (it will even engage the help of adrenaline if glucagon can't keep up with glucose demand)
    *it frees up fatty acids from triglycerides.

    When doing all this, there is no percieved health detriments, glucogan is a normal healthful (critical) hormone. it can do all its work without negatively impacting the body, provided that the body has recently endured an anabolic state (insulin, ingested carbs and protiens etc)

    What doesn't sit well with me is that he implies that these secondary hormones are BADDDD, and to a certain extent he is right. If cortisol and adrenaline are abnormally high, there is something wrong. And I'll tell ya what it is.... Your primary catabolic hormone has failed or its substrate has been depleted, your body has now engaged its secondary catabolic hormones to help overcome this "NOW" stressful situation by catabolising itself instead of stored ingested energy sources.

    To alleviate this BADDDD catabolic state (high cortisol, adrenaline etc) the advice coming from peat and therefore roddy is that we should exist in an antagonistic anabolic state (hence the high sugar intake) permanently. In a way it is better than living in a permanent catabolic state (Ie VLC) but i don't believe it is optimal, It is my belief that obesity, cancer and diabetes is the "end game" of living in a permanent additive anabolic state, even more so, specifically when the body is constantly anabolising second rate nutrients like PUFA's and fast carbs. What I believe to be optimal is constant cycling from anabolic to catabolic states. You add to your body then take away from your body in equall amounts, If you want to add muscle mass be in a anabolic state slightly more, If you want to lose fat be in a catabolic state slightly more.

    YB I hope you don't mind but I think I can read your hormonal tea leaves.... you have high cortisol and adrenaline from all those years of calorie restricting (your body needed glucose and it can't get it from fat stores you where trying to CICO off). You have high estrogen because you needed extra anabolic help to counteract the constant breaking down of body protein (catabolic state), estrogen is the females anabolic hormone, it gives females extra anabolic help when they are growing 2 bodies instead of one. I think estrogen can also be high in females (and some males) that have their primary anabolic hormone insulin, failing from overuse (ie insulin resistance) or insulin can't keep up with the anabolic load (filling the muscles with glycogen, replaceing used liver glycogen, repairing muscle cells) derived from all the bloody exercise they are doing.

    So there we have it. My hormone theory. Obesity what is it? just a person being in a constant anabolic state (permanent insulin production). How do we lose fat? well the only way is to get out your catabolic hormones (specifically glucagon). How long do I use these catabolic hormones for? not long or else your body will start using its "stress" hormones that break down the body for life saving energy. How do I get into an anabolic state? thats easy, eat carbs or alot of protien. How do i get into a catabolic state? another easy one, eat nothing or a little bit of fat and protien, maybe some "slow" carbs might also help you get catabolic quicker.What about ketosis? ketosis only reduces your glycolitic load (it doesn't eliminate it) you still need to produce glucose from some where (your body) just your body don't need to eat as much of it self. I eat Peat, but you reckon im gunna get cancer, fat and diabetes? your only mildly anabolic, all the high quality, slow release carbs and protein your eating is enough to not lead you down the disease path that alot of westerners face from constantly adding shit to their body with out taking it away.

    Im sorry this reply is a bit confusing and a mish mash. I was really trying to get across the following point.

    All our hormones are in place for a reason, There aren't good ones and bad ones. They are all equal and either complemantary with others or opposing others. Please don't bash up my much beloved, extremely important, catabolic hormones.
    Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 09-19-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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  3. #943
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    That's why I like IF. It creates an effortless deficit and gives my digestion a break cyclically. It occurs long enough to make a positive impact but short enough to be very stressful. This works for me but not everyone does well with it. I do think it's completely natural and beneficial to not graze 24/7. We're not cattle in that sense. Breaks are good; changing things up is good. I also think not needing to eat every 4-8 hours is one sign of good metabolic function.
    Last edited by j3nn; 09-19-2013 at 06:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    What are some good food sources of vitamin E? Besides nuts?
    Pretty much the major source of vitamin e is from foods high in polyunsaturated fats, it's a protective mechanism against it, probably. It's just not a big enough source to make any difference. Better off supplementing. After eliminating most major sources of PUFA, the need for vitamin e declines a lot.

    Melons and kiwis have vitamin e in decent amounts though -- so does red palm oil, and it's mostly saturated fat.
    nihil

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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Guys, what do you all think of this?



    See more:

    Defeat S. 959, The FDA Power Grab Bill

    Original bil:

    Pharmaceutical Quality, Security, and Accountability Act (S. 959) - GovTrack.us

    Would this impact us using topical progesterone?
    Yes. More nanny state laws to "protect" us, when they're actually trying to do the opposite. The more people realize that these hormones are healing them, and the drugs they push are making them sick, the more their profit diminishes. Must protect corporate power at all costs in fascist USA.

    Smash it.
    nihil

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    Dberry, two things. Sleep is the time when "bad" hormones are dominant. No need to fast or eat keto for periods of time. Also when people like Peat/Roddy reference "bad" hormones, they are talking in a context of health. No certain hormones are not inherently good or bad, its the situations in which they are produced in quantity the qualifies. Peat not saying that these hormones are evil and should not occure, he is saying that if these hormones are elevated the. The body is in a unfavorable state, a state of stress.

    FMOUN, i found tomato sauce/paste to have decently high amounts of vit E as well.

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    I add tomato paste and sugar or honey to bone broth to make tomato soup. It's delish and loaded with K.
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    I add tomato paste to almost everything i cook. Good stuff!

  9. #949
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    I also use it as a pizza sauce; it's tasty and quick!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Hi YB, Forgive me if i ruin the vibe of this thread momentarily, I don't mean to, I don't mind what all ya's peaties eat (we can discuss else where if this reply gets too heavy). that article you linked erks me (and part 1 and 2), let me explain.

    Roddy is just rattling off the "secondary" catabolic hormones, except for estrogen which is a "secondary" anabolic hormone. In that article he neglected to mention the primary catabolic hormone; glucagon - the direct antagonist of insulin, made in the master adrenal gland, the pancreas, along with insulin. Glucagon controls and also does the job of many of those secondary catabolic hormones,

    *it breaks down protiens, like cortisol (it will even engage the help of cortisol if the dietary protien load is big)
    *it converts/releases liver glycogen, like adrenaline. (it will even engage the help of adrenaline if glucagon can't keep up with glucose demand)
    *it frees up fatty acids from triglycerides.

    When doing all this, there is no percieved health detriments, glucogan is a normal healthful (critical) hormone. it can do all its work without negatively impacting the body, provided that the body has recently endured an anabolic state (insulin, ingested carbs and protiens etc)

    What doesn't sit well with me is that he implies that these secondary hormones are BADDDD, and to a certain extent he is right. If cortisol and adrenaline are abnormally high, there is something wrong. And I'll tell ya what it is.... Your primary catabolic hormone has failed or its substrate has been depleted, your body has now engaged its secondary catabolic hormones to help overcome this "NOW" stressful situation by catabolising itself instead of stored ingested energy sources.

    To alleviate this BADDDD catabolic state (high cortisol, adrenaline etc) the advice coming from peat and therefore roddy is that we should exist in an antagonistic anabolic state (hence the high sugar intake) permanently. In a way it is better than living in a permanent catabolic state (Ie VLC) but i don't believe it is optimal, It is my belief that obesity, cancer and diabetes is the "end game" of living in a permanent additive anabolic state, even more so, specifically when the body is constantly anabolising second rate nutrients like PUFA's and fast carbs. What I believe to be optimal is constant cycling from anabolic to catabolic states. You add to your body then take away from your body in equall amounts, If you want to add muscle mass be in a anabolic state slightly more, If you want to lose fat be in a catabolic state slightly more.

    YB I hope you don't mind but I think I can read your hormonal tea leaves.... you have high cortisol and adrenaline from all those years of calorie restricting (your body needed glucose and it can't get it from fat stores you where trying to CICO off). You have high estrogen because you needed extra anabolic help to counteract the constant breaking down of body protein (catabolic state), estrogen is the females anabolic hormone, it gives females extra anabolic help when they are growing 2 bodies instead of one. I think estrogen can also be high in females (and some males) that have their primary anabolic hormone insulin, failing from overuse (ie insulin resistance) or insulin can't keep up with the anabolic load (filling the muscles with glycogen, replaceing used liver glycogen, repairing muscle cells) derived from all the bloody exercise they are doing.

    So there we have it. My hormone theory. Obesity what is it? just a person being in a constant anabolic state (permanent insulin production). How do we lose fat? well the only way is to get out your catabolic hormones (specifically glucagon). How long do I use these catabolic hormones for? not long or else your body will start using its "stress" hormones that break down the body for life saving energy. How do I get into an anabolic state? thats easy, eat carbs or alot of protien. How do i get into a catabolic state? another easy one, eat nothing or a little bit of fat and protien, maybe some "slow" carbs might also help you get catabolic quicker.What about ketosis? ketosis only reduces your glycolitic load (it doesn't eliminate it) you still need to produce glucose from some where (your body) just your body don't need to eat as much of it self. I eat Peat, but you reckon im gunna get cancer, fat and diabetes? your only mildly anabolic, all the high quality, slow release carbs and protein your eating is enough to not lead you down the disease path that alot of westerners face from constantly adding shit to their body with out taking it away.

    Im sorry this reply is a bit confusing and a mish mash. I was really trying to get across the following point.

    All our hormones are in place for a reason, There aren't good ones and bad ones. They are all equal and either complemantary with others or opposing others. Please don't bash up my much beloved, extremely important, catabolic hormones.
    Hey DH!

    Firstly, I just want to say... you don't need to come into this thread outlining your position, and reassuring us that you don't disapprove of our woe. This isn't a cult! I like your approach and it's good to talk.

    I read that Roddy article quite differently to you. I didn't think he was saying that any hormone is inherently bad and that we should amputate the ovaries. He was just saying that an excessive amount of these hormones is stressful and harmful to the organism.

    The area that Peat's work really stands out is that he administers different optimal ranges for particular hormones. That which is believed to be "normal range" according to CW is not normal range to Peat. He's not saying that we shouldn't have these hormones at all. Serotonin and TSH are two that he believes should be significantly lower than CW dictates.

    Thanks for the reading - that was interesting. Can I add another leaf to the cup? Why might I have low progesterone?
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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