Page 9 of 206 FirstFirst ... 78910111959109 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 2060

Thread: Primal with MOAR Peat: Food & Hormone Discussion (Ray Peat Followers) page 9

  1. #81
    BestBetter's Avatar
    BestBetter is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NY / Italy
    Posts
    1,210
    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I spent so much time (years) dicking around with all kinds of ridiculous things, and the answer was in my blood. It's one of the times when I think knowledge can be a set back, because sometimes you do have to get tests done and find out what's going on, instead of speculating.
    Wow, I can't even begin to express how dead on right this is. I've been screwing around with my diet for so many years, from Paleo to Primal to PHD to Peat and various combinations, always feeling better after the initial change and then inevitably slumping back into the same issues (fatigue, hair loss, etc...).

    I recently saw a Functional Medicine M.D. who suggested I get my ferritin tested after my hair loss starting getting really severe immediately after switching to Peat (which I was really gung ho about initially, and even went back to consuming dairy, which I hadn't in more than 5 years).

    My recent bloodwork showed I have insanely low ferritin (which makes no sense since I've always eaten plenty of meat and have light periods). So I decided to go back and look at my older bloodwork from years ago and it turns out that my ferritin has been extremely low for more than 5 years, so much so than I now have developed anemia as a result. Would have been nice if any of my dummy doctors who ordered that bloodwork had noticed and said something.

    Likely, my hair loss went into overdrive after switching 100% Peat because all the foods and liquids he suggests either contain no/low iron or are actively blocking iron absorption. I think this is one of aspects of his recommendations that I find to be negligent. He's very focused on blocking and avoiding iron as a sweeping general rule (which is very male-centric, since this tends to be an issue for men but not women). It would be far more responsible of him to differentiate between people with high iron vs. people with normal or low iron because his writings make it seem as if avoiding iron is something everyone should be doing.

    So I ditched the coffee, chocolate and dairy (iron blockers) and I'm back to half/half PHD and Peat type diet (starches, lower fat, lots of fruit and sugar, low veggies, liver and bone broth, lots of ferments). I'm not eating this way because I think it's the right way, it's really just what my body seems to want and do the best with.

    It's really critical that people who are choosing a diet to deal with health issues get bloodwork done, and have it looked by a doctor who isn't going to just rely on the ridiculously wrong ranges that the labs use when identifying deficiencies/excesses.
    Last edited by BestBetter; 08-10-2013 at 04:39 PM.

  2. #82
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,731
    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Citation?
    Derp said it.

  3. #83
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,731
    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    Wow, I can't even begin to express how dead on right this is. I've been screwing around with my diet for so many years, from Paleo to Primal to PHD to Peat and various combinations, always feeling better after the initial change and then inevitably slumping back into the same issues (fatigue, hair loss, etc...).

    I recently saw a Functional Medicine M.D. who suggested I get my ferritin tested after my hair loss starting getting really severe immediately after switching to Peat (which I was really gung ho about initially, and even went back to consuming dairy, which I hadn't in more than 5 years).

    My recent bloodwork showed I have insanely low ferritin (which makes no sense since I've always eaten plenty of meat and have light periods). So I decided to go back and look at my older bloodwork from years ago and it turns out that my ferritin has been extremely low for more than 5 years, so much so than I now have developed anemia as a result. Would have been nice if any of my dummy doctors who ordered that bloodwork had noticed and said something.

    Likely, my hair loss went into overdrive after switching 100% Peat because all the foods and liquids he suggests either contain no/low iron or are actively blocking iron absorption. I think this is one of aspects of his recommendations that I find to be negligent. He's very focused on blocking and avoiding iron as a sweeping general rule (which is very male-centric, since this tends to be an issue for men but not women). It would be far more responsible of him to differentiate between people with high iron vs. people with normal or low iron because his writings make it seem as if avoiding iron is something everyone should be doing.

    So I ditched the coffee, chocolate and dairy (iron blockers) and I'm back to half/half PHD and Peat type diet (starches, lower fat, lots of fruit and sugar, low veggies, liver and bone broth, lots of ferments). I'm not eating this way because I think it's the right way, it's really just what my body seems to want and do the best with.

    It's really critical that people who are choosing a diet to deal with health issues get bloodwork done, and have it looked by a doctor who isn't going to just rely on the ridiculously wrong ranges that the labs use when identifying deficiencies/excesses.
    Seriously.... if a general all whole food diet to satiety without micromanagement aint getting you well then you NEED to do this. You need some hardcore in depth testing and professional guidance IMO.

  4. #84
    Derpamix's Avatar
    Derpamix is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    California
    Posts
    5,390
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Derp said it.
    I don't think Ray Peat trips on acid too often.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  5. #85
    j3nn's Avatar
    j3nn is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    So I ditched the coffee, chocolate and dairy (iron blockers) and I'm back to half/half PHD and Peat type diet (starches, lower fat, lots of fruit and sugar, low veggies, liver and bone broth, lots of ferments). I'm not eating this way because I think it's the right way, it's really just what my body seems to want and do the best with.
    This is where I'm at: Trying to avoid dairy and doing a combination of PHD/Peat which also happens to be about 80% Primal by default. I also have low ferritin and iron-deficiency anemia and agree with you 100% about ignoring Peat's recommendations regarding iron as it does seem male-centric and doesn't address female hormonal issues, especially those afflicted with anemia. I underwent a blood transfusion a few weeks ago, and since then I have not been consistent with anything--never was for any significant length of time, to be honest. Too much bouncing around with diet experimentation. Now I know what my trajectory is. I know when I am more consistent with PHD/Peat I feel better than this. I have overlapping symptoms going on, but right now the hormonal ones are priority. As I understand it, being anemic affects your digestive recovery if you already have digestive issues; the necessary materials don't get to the stomach for repair and it's a vicious cycle. So that's why restoring hormonal balance is so important to me, more so than my digestive problems.
    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

  6. #86
    j3nn's Avatar
    j3nn is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    3,376
    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Btw, have you ever thought of writing to Peat asking for advice about your digestive issues?
    I haven't contacted him, I feel bad doing it. I want to purchase his books from him, maybe they answer some questions. It's really old fashioned doing it, though. I would have to send a check in the mail, lol. I find those qualities about him so heartening.
    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

  7. #87
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    Wow, I can't even begin to express how dead on right this is. I've been screwing around with my diet for so many years, from Paleo to Primal to PHD to Peat and various combinations, always feeling better after the initial change and then inevitably slumping back into the same issues (fatigue, hair loss, etc...).

    I recently saw a Functional Medicine M.D. who suggested I get my ferritin tested after my hair loss starting getting really severe immediately after switching to Peat (which I was really gung ho about initially, and even went back to consuming dairy, which I hadn't in more than 5 years).

    My recent bloodwork showed I have insanely low ferritin (which makes no sense since I've always eaten plenty of meat and have light periods). So I decided to go back and look at my older bloodwork from years ago and it turns out that my ferritin has been extremely low for more than 5 years, so much so than I now have developed anemia as a result. Would have been nice if any of my dummy doctors who ordered that bloodwork had noticed and said something.

    Likely, my hair loss went into overdrive after switching 100% Peat because all the foods and liquids he suggests either contain no/low iron or are actively blocking iron absorption. I think this is one of aspects of his recommendations that I find to be negligent. He's very focused on blocking and avoiding iron as a sweeping general rule (which is very male-centric, since this tends to be an issue for men but not women). It would be far more responsible of him to differentiate between people with high iron vs. people with normal or low iron because his writings make it seem as if avoiding iron is something everyone should be doing.

    So I ditched the coffee, chocolate and dairy (iron blockers) and I'm back to half/half PHD and Peat type diet (starches, lower fat, lots of fruit and sugar, low veggies, liver and bone broth, lots of ferments). I'm not eating this way because I think it's the right way, it's really just what my body seems to want and do the best with.

    It's really critical that people who are choosing a diet to deal with health issues get bloodwork done, and have it looked by a doctor who isn't going to just rely on the ridiculously wrong ranges that the labs use when identifying deficiencies/excesses.
    Hey BB, Great to have you back here!

    Sorry to hear that you're still searching for answers. I agree that Peat definitely doesn't have them all.

    How are you sorting out the anaemia? It's one thing I'm a bit cautious about as well, as I have a tendency towards it. Even when I was eating tons of meat, my iron was high, but my ferritin was low, which indicates that's partially an absorption problem.

    I'm eating tons of dairy on Peat, and on top of that, I'm not eating much meat - I have to force myself because I've gotten so lazy about cooking And then this month my TOM only lasted a day, which is not a good sign imo...

    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    I haven't contacted him, I feel bad doing it. I want to purchase his books from him, maybe they answer some questions. It's really old fashioned doing it, though. I would have to send a check in the mail, lol. I find those qualities about him so heartening.
    Lol, I agree he's very endearing! Like a surrogate grandfather

    Maybe we should all compile a list and get Derp to ask him our questions - he used to email with Peat.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 08-10-2013 at 05:56 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #88
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    More on this topic of iron absorption, what do you guys think of this article? Does calcium interfere with iron absorption?

    It concludes that calcium inhibits iron absorption, but also says that:

    The validity of using changes in the concentration of serum
    ferritin as an indirect measure of changes in iron absorption has
    never been evaluated in iron-replete adult subjects. Several
    observations indicate that iron stores in iron-replete adult subjects
    are constant and difficult to change (17). This has also been shown when giving iron supplements to iron-replete subjects for
    a long time (18). Recent studies show a linear relation between
    the log of total amounts of iron absorbed and iron stores (calculated
    from serum ferritin) (17). Parallel regression lines were
    observed for diets with different bioavailability. Inserting data
    from observed regression equations into a simple conservation
    equation allows calculations of the rate of change of iron stores
    from known data about absorption and losses of iron. It is then
    evident that steady states for iron stores are formed in adults
    within 2–3 y and that these will take a long time to change
    (years) if absorption or losses are changed only moderately.

    Significant changes in serum ferritin after giving extra calcium
    with meals to adult, iron-replete subjects are therefore not
    expected within actual observation intervals and sample sizes.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #89
    BestBetter's Avatar
    BestBetter is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NY / Italy
    Posts
    1,210
    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Hey BB, Great to have you back here!
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Even when I was eating tons of meat, my iron was high, but my ferritin was low, which indicates that's partially an absorption problem.
    I still don't really understand the difference between iron and ferritin...it's weird that one could be high while the other is low. There is no end to the bizarre things our bodies are capable of doing!


    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    How are you sorting out the anaemia?
    My strategy for dealing with my iron deficiency anemia is to first go the supplement route and then retest with new bloodwork. My doctor recommended retesting after about 2 months, because improvement is slow but that should be enough time to show whether there is any benefit in what I am doing. My 2 months is just about up, so I'm going to get retested this coming week. If there is no/little improvement (which is what I suspect, since my hair is still shedding like crazy), I will have to find a GP to administer iron shots. Soooooo looking forward to that, I hear they are one of the most painful shots to get.

    In terms of what I've been doing in the past 2 months to improve my ferritin (and hopefully red blood cell count and hemoglobin), I stopped eating or drinking ANYTHING that inhibits iron absorption. No coffee or tea, chocolate, no strawberries. No occasional pasta made from brown rice since whole grains inhibit absorption, too.

    Since I read that iron absorption from food improves with Vitamin C, I've been taking an Ester-C vitamin with every meal. I've been taking spoonfuls of molasses, trying to eat more beef and lamb and goat over chicken/turkey/fish, and taking 50mg of an iron supplement (Iron Bisglycinate) that is supposed to be the most bioavailable and easy on the stomach (even though my IBS is more or less in remission, I can easily be prone to constipation). I take the supplements between meals on an empty stomach with 2,000-4,000mg of ascorbic acid which is also supposed to improve bioavailability.

    I have a feeling that what I'm doing is in vain, since I most likely have an impaired ability to absorb iron at all from my food as this has been a problem for so long and I'm a pretty big meat eater.

  10. #90
    YogaBare's Avatar
    YogaBare is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    . . .
    Posts
    4,547
    Quote Originally Posted by BestBetter View Post
    I still don't really understand the difference between iron and ferritin...it's weird that one could be high while the other is low. There is no end to the bizarre things our bodies are capable of doing!
    My understanding is that ferritin is the iron store (it's an iron-storage protein) so it acts as a defence mechanism against iron deficiency (if you have low iron intake the protein will release iron into the blood stream). But, if you have absorption issues, you may have a lot of circulating iron in the blood, but low ferritin.

    But, I think there's more to iron absorption than diet. I know it's connected to thyroid and autoimmune disorders, but I don't quite understand the connection so maybe someone else can chime in.

    Sounds like you're being diligent about sorting this out - I didn't realise hair loss was a symptom of iron deficiency anaemia though. How are your other symptoms (fatigue etc), aaaand - have you kept the weight off?

    Edit: this seems to be a good article on ferritin versus iron: http://www.chemistry.wustl.edu/~edud.../Ferritin.html
    Last edited by YogaBare; 08-10-2013 at 06:37 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

Page 9 of 206 FirstFirst ... 78910111959109 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •