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Thread: Let's Make a Ray Peat Forum page 3

  1. #21
    Mr. Anthony's Avatar
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    My only thing is that I don't think I would go on an Audi forum and constantly talk about how my BMW is better. I'd just hit the BMW forum.

    Sent via A-10 Warthog

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I didn't mean you were thought policing! I was talking to Knifegill (who ironically started, yet another, RP discussion).

    I disagree that sups =/= pharmaceuticals. Technically they are different, since sups are meant to be natural, but seriously, people chug supplements as a cure for every kind of ailment now. (I know you don't). It's become a huge industry, and like pharmaceuticals, there are good, bad, and placebo products.
    Oh, Gotcha. I thought that was directed at me.

    Total agreement that supps are overused. Huge industry and a lot of it is useless at best. Same page there.

    The point I was making about the pharmaceuticals is the divergence from the natural paradigm.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    My only thing is that I don't think I would go on an Audi forum and constantly talk about how my BMW is better. I'd just hit the BMW forum.
    +1 It's also a lot like going into someone's home and then telling anyone present what's wrong with it. It's pretty tacky behavior.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    It's not just that excessive sugar consumption, either. I even like some chocolate and sugars here and there. Sometimes, not every day. It's also that every time somebody says they have a problem, you and your cronies chime in saying it's because their thyroid is messed up from not eating enough candy. It's not physically possible for every person here to have bad thyroids. And then you pretend red meat is bad because of tryptophan. It's all weird niche stuff that newbies don't need to buy. You are defeating people in their quest for health. New posters used to stay and remain active for months, now it's more like weeks because of all the conflict you create. This used to be a place people could ask questions and get real answers, now they get told to go eat candy and drink soda. You should be ashamed of what you've done to this place. You're overriding what Mark would tell people and inserting what Peat might say.
    It's important to have the dissenting viewpoints, though, because otherwise people try to follow Mark's carb blueprint when LC isn't good for them and think that they have to keep hanging in there for months to beat the "carb flu." Mark's posts are very convincing, and they make people believe that low carb is THE way to be healthy. It's true that LC works for some people, but many people don't need to do it and in fact do much better without it. But before all the Peat people came to these forums, all that suffering people would be told is "it's carb flu, add moar fat and wait it out."

    Also, Peat doesn't recommend candy. And there seems to be an odd undertone of jealousy in your posts here, like you're upset that other people can eat sugar and be healthy doing it.

  5. #25
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    paleo and primal are NOT low carb. it is lowER carb than the standard 5000 grams of carbs a day
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  6. #26
    YogaBare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Total agreement that supps are overused. Huge industry and a lot of it is useless at best. Same page there.

    The point I was making about the pharmaceuticals is the divergence from the natural paradigm.
    I know - I hear you. I'm just saying that sups are technically a divergence too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anthony View Post
    My only thing is that I don't think I would go on an Audi forum and constantly talk about how my BMW is better. I'd just hit the BMW forum.
    I don't think cars and nutrition are comparable. Getting your nutrition wrong is highly damaging, yet we're encouraged to shop around for possessions, and with nutrition we're constantly being brainwashed that one woe is the only woe.

    Some people thrive on Peat, but I absolutely don't think that everyone should eat Peat-style. Same way that some people do really well eating high fat, and other people crumble on it. If you find what works for you, brilliant. If not, it's good to have an alternative view point, and Peat's work fits in pretty nicely with Primal.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    +1 It's also a lot like going into someone's home and then telling anyone present what's wrong with it.
    This is a public space. No one owns it. Well, Mark does, and if he wanted it policed, he'd make sure it was. I think he's wiser than we know.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 08-02-2013 at 10:37 PM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #27
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    Since Ray Peat's own words are the best interpretation, I recommend everyone actually read his works before trying to pass criticism and cherrypick non-factual misinterpretations based off other people. But, here are his words and some other things for people to read through and try to refute.

    Carrots:

    carrots - Pastebin.com

    Coffee:

    Life Supporting Substances (7/7) - YouTube
    Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen. Questions about tea and coffee, cancer and other degenerative diseases, and the hormones.

    "The prenatal growth retardation that can be caused by feeding large amounts of caffeine is prevented by supplementing the diet with sugar."
    "When platelets clump, they release various factors that contribute to the development of a clot. Serotonin is one of these, and is released by other kinds of cell, including mast cells and basophils and nerve cells. Serotonin produces vascular spasms and increased blood pressure, blood vessel leakiness and inflammation, and the release of many other stress mediators. Caffeine, besides inhibiting the platelet aggregation, also tends to inhibit the release of serotonin, or to promote its uptake and binding."
    "Serotonin excess causes several of the features of depression, such as learned helplessness and reduced metabolic rate, while coffee stimulates the uptake (inactivation or storage) of serotonin, increases metabolic energy, and tends to improve mood. In animal studies, it reverses the state of helplessness or despair, often more effectively than so-called antidepressants. "

    Association of coffee and caffeine intake wit... [JAMA. 2000 May 24-31] - PubMed - NCBI

    Neuroprotection by caffeine and adenosine A2A receptor blockade of beta-amyloid neurotoxicity (Neuroprotection by caffeine and adenosine A2A... [Br J Pharmacol. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI) : "This constitutes the first in vitro evidence to suggest that adenosine A(2A) receptors may be the molecular target responsible for the observed beneficial effects of caffeine consumption in the development of Alzheimer's disease.

    Dairy:

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...698.html#/ref1

    Dairy and blood pressure: a fresh look at the evide... [Nutr Rev. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI
    Milk products, dietary patterns and blood pre... [J Am Coll Nutr. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
    Effects of dairy products on intracellular ca... [J Am Coll Nutr. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
    Protection of adrenocortical activity by d... [Indian J Exp Biol. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

    “The ratio of calcium to phosphate is very important; that’s why milk and cheese are so valuable for weight loss, or for preventing weight gain. For people who aren’t very active, low fat milk and cheese are better, because the extra fat calories aren’t needed.”

    Role of dietary calcium and dairy products in modulat... [Lipids. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

    Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths

    Sugar:

    Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.

    “Applying glucose and insulin topically to the wound, it heals quickly. The very old practice of treating deep wounds with honey or granulated sugar has been studied in controlled situations, including the treatment of diabetic ulcers, infected deep wounds following heart surgery, and wounds of lepers. The treatment eradicates bacterial infections better than some antiseptics, and accelerates healing without scarring, or with minimal scarring. The sugar regulates the communication between cells, and optimizes the synthesis of collagen and extracellular matrix.”

    A new perspective on glucocorticoid feedba... [J Neuroendocrinol. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

    "In monkeys living in the wild, when their diet is mainly fruit, their cortisol is low, and it rises when they eat a diet with less sugar (Behie, et al., 2010). Sucrose consumption lowers ACTH, the main pituitary stress hormone (Klement, et al., 2009; Ulrich-Lai, et al., 2007), and stress promotes increased sugar and fat consumption (Pecoraro, et al., 2004). If animals’ adrenal glands are removed, so that they lack the adrenal steroids, they choose to consume more sucrose (Laugero, et al., 2001). Stress seems to be perceived as a need for sugar. In the absence of sucrose, satisfying this need with starch and fat is more likely to lead to obesity."

    Effects of glucose infusion on neuroendocrine and... [Metabolism. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
    Chronic stress promotes palatable feeding, whi... [Endocrinology. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

    Coke:

    "The brown stuff in coffee is very similar to the coke caramel; when I can't get good coffee and juice, coke is convenient."

    Fructose uses up phosphate, and it contains a decent amount of co2.

    Aspirin:

    Aspirin, brain, and cancer

    Aspirin rapidly breaks down into acetic acid and salicylic acid (which is found in many fruits), and salicylic acid is protective to the stomach and intestine, and other organs.

    Repeated use of aspirin protects the stomach against very strong irritants.

    Aspirin is an antioxidant that protects against lipid peroxidation, but it also stimulates mitochondrial respiration.

    It can inhibit abnormal cell division, but promote normal cell division

    It can facilitate learning, while preventing excitotoxic nerve injury

    It reduces clotting, but it can decrease excessive menstrual bleeding

    Aspirin activates both glycolysis and mitochondrial respiration

    It shifts the mitochondria away from the oxidation of fats, toward the oxidation of glucose, resulting in the increased production of carbon dioxide.

    Thanks to TimtheTaco for pointing this out to me:

    Salustiano Sanchez-Blazquez: World's oldest man aged 112 credits longevity to eating a banana a day | Mail Online

    Anacin is caffeine and aspirin.

    Red light therapy:

    Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues

    “Getting a generous amount of light on the head has beneficial effects on mental function, by increasing the activity of cytochrome oxidase (Rojas, et al., 2012) and reducing inflammation.”

    Low-level light therapy improves cortical m... [J Alzheimers Dis. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI
    In vivo low-level light therapy ... [Photochem Photobiol. 2010 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI

    Progesterone:

    Progesterone Summaries - Progesterone Deceptions - Progesterone Supplementation - Dosage of Progesterone
    (FUCKING READ THAT)
    Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones

    progesterone participates in practically every physiological process, in both men and women.

    Dr. John R Lee talks about progesterone - YouTube
    (FUCKING WATCH THAT)

    Without pregnenolone synthesis, the other protective steroids (like progesterone & DHEA) cannot be made in adequate amounts, increasing the need for cortisol production while simultaneously leaving estrogen unopposed.

    Bag breathing:

    "Realizing that low thyroid people produce little carbon dioxide, it seemed to me that there might be a point at which the circulatory shut-down of unstimulated parts of the brain would become self-sustaining, with less circulation to an area decreasing the CO2 produced in that area, which would cause further vasoconstriction. Carbon dioxide (breathing in a bag, or drinking carbonated water, or bathing in water with baking soda) followed by thyroid supplementation, would be the appropriate therapy for this type of functional ischemia of the brain."

    ----

    I'm going to stop here for now. Realize there are many intricacies involved, and it's all connected to everything, and support of the mitochondria. Feel free to read those, and still formulate valid criticisms, if you wish, and I'll gladly respond. Sick of disinformation.
    Last edited by Derpamix; 08-02-2013 at 10:43 PM.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

  8. #28
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I know - I hear you. I'm just saying that sups are technically a divergence too.

    I don't think cars and nutrition are comparable.
    No. Pharmaceuticals are another whole order of magnitude away from the natural paradigm. Chemical compounds applied to the skin and taken as pills.

    Of course diets are different than cars but one could also go to a holocaust survivors forum and start posting about how that never happened or go to an AIDS support forum and start posting about how that doesn't really exist. That's the point Mr. Anthony was making. Deliberate sh*t stirring is deliberate.

  9. #29
    YogaBare's Avatar
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    I give up.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  10. #30
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Derp, screaming caps telling people to FU**ING READ THAT or to FU**ING WATCH THAT are not really an effective means of making your point.

    Yes, we know you know how to google and can find lots of cites to support any idea you like. Good for you.

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