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    frgsonmysox's Avatar
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    More questions on Raw Food Diet (for dogs)

    We are 2 weeks from getting our puppy and today we purchased 25 lbs of meat to start stocking up on his food. I want to get some chicken with bones to go along with it, but I had some questions.

    Can I save egg shells in the fridge to add to his diet, or do they need to be freshly used?
    How much does he really need to eat? I've found sources saying 2% of body weight all the way up to 10%.
    If we are low on budget, how awful would it be to NOT use organ meat for a few weeks?
    We have ground beef for him right now, I was planning to mix it with eggs (shells and all) to make patties and also throw in some chicken legs/wings/whatever I find. Does that seem okay for now?
    Different sources say yes you HAVE to use veggies, and others say NO to veggies. I'd rather not use veggies, will that be detrimental?
    ~Beth~ wife to Chris, mommy to Anthony Nathaniel, Anastasia Fae, Baby C, David Cillian, and Charlie George.

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    jrherring's Avatar
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    Hey, Beth...and thank you for feeding your dog more naturally, just like you're doing yourself!

    Question
    1. how big is the puppy going to be when you come home? 10 week old great dane or 10 week old dachshund?
    I fed my 3 guys from 8 weeks till present on raw chicken as a base, beef liver a few times a week, an egg a few times a week, and a spoonful of left over veggies from our meals here and there. My guys were around 10lbs at 10 weeks. So, I started them on chicken wings that I'd pounded with a mallet to break up the bones. For a pup new to raw, they prob don't have the jaw strength to break the bones. Don't worry. It won't hurt them. I prob fed 3 - 5 wings with other assortment stuffs right off the bat.
    Dogs absolutely go nuts over the big beef rib bones!! And turkey necks!
    I wouldn't go a few weeks with no organ food. It'll be the cheapest thing you buy. Chicken gizzards, beef livers, kidneys, etc. Usually easily found in the meat section...and frequently on clearance price.
    You can feed left over egg shells, sure. I prob would only do a few a week, esp if you're giving them whole eggs w/a small crack in them. <So the puppies can smell/taste it's food, not a toy.
    no need to make patties. Go get a stainless steel dog bowl and just dump everything in it.
    I prob feed around 2 - 3 percent my dogs weight. Even as a puppy. Now, if they start looking heavy, I trim back. One of my guys, Mikey, always looks too lean for me. So he typically gets a little extra. My guys range from just over 2 yrs to almost 18 months.
    Check your area for a raw feeding coop. Example of Austin's coop: http://www.arfcoop.org
    If not, just buy in bulk when you can and freeze. I bought a $50 upright freezer just for my dogs' food!
    Read read read all the material you can find and form your own opinion.
    I do this: I try to think of what Allie would eat if she were hungry and on her own. She'd chase down the closest rabbit, eat it's guts, then work on the remainder...bones, fur, heads, eyes, all of it. The guts have predigested grass, carrots, broccoli...whatever that critter just ate...in it. The veggies are already starting the breakdown of cells by aid of the rabbits digestion. Makes it easier for your dog to digest them. (Cooking them does the same thing!)
    Here's a couple of links to MDA threads regarding this subject.
    Primal Pooches?


    RAW dog food recipe and cost!

    If you want more specific info, holler at me offline!

    But again, your hound will thank you for this just like your body has thanked you for changing your diet...by making you feel better! My guys' have wonderful dog breath, no stinky poops and a fantastic coat!

    jenella

    Edit: I also have my cat on a raw diet now as well. She's acting so much younger than ever!

    Pic of my pack...
    Last edited by jrherring; 05-29-2010 at 07:51 PM. Reason: Forgot about Shiner!, adding picture
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    so cute!!! Our puppy is coming to us at 8 weeks old as thats when the owners are rehoming the litter. He's a golden/huskie mix, but I'm not sure his current weight. I suspect he's about 10lbs or more though.

    Good thought on the bone, he may be too tiny to chew it up just yet. Would buying bone meal and adding that to raw hamburger be better in the beginning with Offal and eggs a few times a week?

    And for the eggs - I see such various opinions. Some sites say none at all, others say no more than 1 a week, ect... How many is too many?

    The make ahead was mainly for time reasons, if we can freeze them in portion sizes with whatever needs to be added already added in then we could save a lot of time.

    Do you use Garlic? I read various opinions on that too. Some say don't use at all, others say it's great for repelling fleas!
    ~Beth~ wife to Chris, mommy to Anthony Nathaniel, Anastasia Fae, Baby C, David Cillian, and Charlie George.

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    jrherring's Avatar
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    Golden/huskie mix...aww! He's prob gonna be bigger than 10lbs by the time you get him! And FUZZY!

    You want your dog to get the chewing action to build up jaw strength and to teach him to chew. Feeding burger won't do that. Again, keep it as much in it's natural form as you can. That fellow's prob only been eating wet kibble and doesn't know how to chew. Get a small package of wings and if the dog can wolf them down without chewing, then move up to the entire wing, feed a thigh, etc. Keep moving up in size to ensure they're actually chewing. The first time I saw Riley swallow a chicken wing whole without chewing it, I graduated him up to legs. Now, my guys get 1 chicken quarter (leg, thigh attached), 2" pc of liver/gizzard/whatever I have, an egg and maybe a blop of yogurt. That's just a guestimate. I think right now I have some frozen sardines thawing out for them. Want to see something funny, hand a dog a whole fish and watch that same dog look at you like you've lost your mind! (Most grocers have frozen sardines in the freezer. Just ask. Great Great for dogs!)

    Dogs are opportunistic eaters. They'll eat whatever they find whenever they find it. Eggs included. I've yet had a problem with 'too many eggs'. They are a great balanced source of nutrition for your dogs. Just like for you!

    Because we buy in bulk, we fill the gladware containers and freeze. I don't know the actual size but they're about 3 - 4 inches deep, 7" wide and maybe 10" long. That's enough chicken to feed my guys for about 2 days. Just long enough for the next one to thaw in the fridge. Ziplock bags invariably got holes in them from freezing etc and will make a mess. For one dog, I'd say 1 dish in the fridge with enough food for 2 days. A second dish thawing while working on the first one.

    I do use garlic...maybe 3 times a week? Just dump on their food. Maybe a quarter tspn. I also use Frontline once about every 3 months and heartworm meds every other month. I know some who are holistic in their heartworm prevention...I'm just not that brave. There's a whole theory out there on Vaccinosis, prevention medicines and dogs. Read and learn and find your balance with too many chemicals versus the health of your dog. Pending where you are in the country, fleas and mosquitos may not be a problem for you at all. Here in Texas...I've got to keep the critters out and off my guys. (Plus my pack is a sleep-in-my-bed-with-me type.) Diatomaceous Earth is a good bug repellent as well. (check my spelling)

    Don't worry about macro-nutrients. As long as over a month or so, your dog is getting a balance of offal, muscle meat, bones, veggies, eggs, whatever...you'll be fine. Oh, beef heart is a good cheap source of muscle meat.

    Too much info? Sorry. I've researched the hell out of this before I switched. And still regularly read up on topics. My first dog as an adult had horrible skin allergies. Guess what...his dog food was made with grains. My current pack have no allergies, no ear infections, great non-stinky stools that crumble away in a day, and wonderful personalities.

    A word of warning though...when you take away the kibble and he's eaten a meal or two of raw...his poop will be weird. It'll be like a long stool but it'll have a mucous covering over it. If you poke it with a stick, the inside will look like brown, grainy meal. That typically clears up after a day. It's just their body flushing out the kibble/grains/crap that's in bagged kibble.

    Oh, and buy a couple cans of whole packed pumpkin. Not the pie filling kind. This is a great natural medicine for bouts of diarrhea or constipation. Too much liver may result in loose stool.

    Too much info? lol
    Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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    http://leerburg.com/vaccinosis.htm

    Leerburg is a great source for training, feeding, healthcare, etc. While I've not put up the money for any of his DVDs, he does have tons of info/video that's free. And I like his treatment of animals.
    Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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    jenella, your dogs are GORGEOUS! hmmm primal diet for my dogs... now I'm thinking.....

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    Aww, shucks...thanks, Suse!

    Definitely think about it. If it's good for us to get back to the way we're supposed to eat...imagine how great it is for our fur kids??

    Allie is a Border Collie/German Shepherd. (far left) She turned 2 in April. And has OCD over me so badly. But she's super sweet and smart.
    Riley is Border Collie/Lab (middle) He was my Riley Dude from when he was about 6 weeks till right at a year. That's about the time he decided to tear his brother Mikey (on the right) a new mouth in the side of his head. They were litter mates and I wasn't able to stop their mutual aggression. So Riley has a new home with 2 kids!

    They were wanting some of the yogurt I was eating in that picture. Hence them sitting so handsomely...!
    Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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    start. stop. start.stop...now ramping up to cruising speed!

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    Most folks have covered everything....but will toss a coupe notes out there:

    -Feed about 2-3% of the EXPECTED future body weight. Ballpark it, and adjust according to how the pup is acting. Does he finish and search voraciously for more, or leave some behind sort of deall.

    -You might look around and see if you can get chicken necks, those are a good puppy chewing food....although you will want to hold the first couple ones and make sure they don't gulp them down whole. Chicken wings are not too bad, and if you can find them, breast bones are pretty good (usually has the ribs and softer breast bone). Cornish game hens are a bit more expensive per pound, but are also a good small bone for chewing....I feed those to my cats and they can eat every bone in a game hen outside of the middle of a the leg bone. I used to get 40lb cases of necks, chicken backs, and breast bones from a whole sale restaurant supply place that sold directly to the public. Some smaller butchers can order these for you too. I can actually find turkey hearts and livers in the frozen meats section at my normal grocery store. Asian markets are also a good place to round up organs. Think 5-10% of meals over time to include organs, but don't fret about every day balance. I feed the cats organs a few days of the week, sometimes we miss it a week, sometimes we get it every day for a couple weeks. Just depends on whats available. Variety and balance over time.

    -I would not worry about veggies. If there are poo problems, decrease the bone content. If you still have troubles, you can consider veggies, but really their only purpose is fiber. Too many starches from the veggies like carrots and you end up with other problems (yeast imbalances, etc).

    Pups do really well on raw, and expect a slower growing cycle, which is a good thing. You might even have an easier time housetraining since they have less 'output', and things are really predictable.

    Good luck!!!

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    frgsonmysox's Avatar
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    Okay, I bought some turkey necks, chicken livers and giblets, beef hearts and liver.... does that seem appropriate foods?
    ~Beth~ wife to Chris, mommy to Anthony Nathaniel, Anastasia Fae, Baby C, David Cillian, and Charlie George.

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    I'd say you were right on target there.
    Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

    Yr 42

    Yr 41

    February Whole 30-ish

    start. stop. start.stop...now ramping up to cruising speed!

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