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Thread: Strengthening the back for deadlift page 2

  1. #11
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    To be honest, I don't think I will ever deadlift again. The pain I have now is sciatica. It gets worse every day. It started when my back fell apart a couple weeks ago on deadlift. I cannot trust myself to do deadlift properly. I feel that I have screwed up my future life as an old lady, the one I had all mapped out to be a series of adventures.

    In reality, I would never lift anything heavy in the manner of a deadlift anyway. Never have and never will. I would normally either do what you would do to flip a tire, which is to get underneath and push something up, or I would drag an item. Anything I actually lift by bending over is not heavy.

    Nevertheless, I will keep squatting and I'm not averse to continuing to strengthen my back and body in other ways.

    I have linked this on several occasions in the past and I'm gonna do it here SPECIFICALLY for you. If your sciatica is disc related then flexion work frequently exacerbates the condition. This exercise program is body weight only but helps strengthen the posterior chain quite well. The workout in the book is akin to what I would recommend in combination with chiropractic adjustments DURING a sciatic flare. You may do other exercises when the pain begins to recede, but this is the basis of a good starting point.

    Foundation Training : Home

    I didn't respond right away cause I figured you posted in Odds and Ends this time to get away from us

  2. #12
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    No deadlift at all - has the world come to an end now??? But seriously, deadlifting is far from a must and a combination of other movements can even give better results for back hypertrophy and strength! Best exercise for upper lats is close grip Gironda lat pull on a pulley machine, or medium grip pull-down to chest. If you are VERY strong you can also do pull-ups with a pronated grip, but almost nobody is strong enough to isolate their lats by doing pull-ups anyway. Then you need to hit lower lats and traps and bent over rows standing on a block for more stretch is excellent, but it may affect lower back same as deadlifts, so chest supported T-bar rows or dumbbell rows with knee and hand on a bench is probably a better option. For lower back/posterior chain you can do reverse hyperextension on a roman chair or bent legged good-morning, but be careful if you have a lower back problem, remember that lower back will also be hit by other exercises such as squat…
    Last edited by Gorbag; 08-01-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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  3. #13
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    You know you want to DL again! No shame in starting over with just the bar if needed. Work on form. When it feels right add weight.

    +1 for good mornings.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    To be honest, I don't think I will ever deadlift again. The pain I have now is sciatica. It gets worse every day. It started when my back fell apart a couple weeks ago on deadlift. I cannot trust myself to do deadlift properly. I feel that I have screwed up my future life as an old lady, the one I had all mapped out to be a series of adventures.
    I feel your pain (literally). I hurt my back in the gym over a year ago and I still have some lingering numbness down one leg. For a couple days after the injury, the pain in my back was awful (had to sleep with a leg thrown over the back of the sofa) and one day my leg felt like it was on fire for several minutes. Sometimes it feels like you've "ruined" yourself and you'll never recover, but don't lose hope! I am no longer limited in what I can do physically and my pain is no worse than it was before my catastrophic injury. In fact, it doesn't bother me at all most days.

    For continuing recovery, I think it's really important to focus on your posture, since you're probably standing, sitting, or walking 99% of the time. And mobility can also be huge. I like "Becoming a Supple Leopard" by Kelly Starrett. I am also a fan of Eric Cressey. Here is a recent post:
    4 Steps You Might Have Skipped in Your Strength Training Career | Eric Cressey | High Performance Training, Personal Training

  5. #15
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    In my experience the majority of deadlift injuries are due to mobility issues of the hamstring and lower back. If you have a butt wink at the bottom of a squat, chances are you are setting yourself up to fail (injure yourself) on heavy deadlifts. I am aware of Justin L's "butt wink doesn't matter" argument; he's speaking specifically about back squatting, and low bar back squatting specifically. Deadlifts are a different ball game in my opinion.

    Deadlifts should be engaging the posterior - hamstring, glutes as the primary drivers. Sure your core, biceps, lats come into play for stabilization -- but the bread and butter is your posterior. if your lower back is working on a deadlift - you are fucked.

    To keep your lower back from engaging - it has to be decoupled from your posterior chain.

    A good, simple test - at the bottom of an airsquat (using a pvc pipe for stability if required) move your knees "back" until your shins are perpendicular to the ground. Your chest and head should be "up" not facing the floor. Now push your hips further behind you. Is your back still flat? Do you feel your hamstrings as primarily engaged? Are your hamstrings pulling your lower back down? On lighter weight you can get away with engaging your lower back - on heavy weight though this will be the weakest link to your (posterior) "chain" - and the point of failure.

    Often those using "good form" ("angry gorilla" - flat back, chest up, knees back -- on a standard deadlift) can still get injured without proper mobility.

    Want to fix deadlift mobility issues? Do yoga. Or PM me for mobility exercises.

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFastCat View Post
    at the bottom of an airsquat (using a pvc pipe for stability if required) move your knees "back" until your shins are perpendicular to the ground.
    Can you take a picture of you doing this or something? I can't imagine anybody being able to get into this position, but maybe I'm understanding you wrong.

  7. #17
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    It's not like I can actually do any tire flipping. I do not have a tire and wouldn't know where to keep one if I did.

    I feel quite alone in the wilderness about this. It seems people are very invested in believing that deadlifts are god's gift to the universe. Responses on Starting Strength to my query were quite dismissive. It seemed to me the answers were carefully worded to not recommend anything else so as not to make the SS program seem dangerous.

    I posted here by accident. I meant to post in the fitness forum.

    I guess I'll just stick with trying to get a pullup and doing lighter squats on press days for now. I keep running out of time on press day anyway.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    It's not like I can actually do any tire flipping. I do not have a tire and wouldn't know where to keep one if I did.

    I feel quite alone in the wilderness about this. It seems people are very invested in believing that deadlifts are god's gift to the universe. Responses on Starting Strength to my query were quite dismissive. It seemed to me the answers were carefully worded to not recommend anything else so as not to make the SS program seem dangerous.

    I posted here by accident. I meant to post in the fitness forum.

    I guess I'll just stick with trying to get a pullup and doing lighter squats on press days for now. I keep running out of time on press day anyway.
    What about pulling sumo? Ever tried it?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I have linked this on several occasions in the past and I'm gonna do it here SPECIFICALLY for you. If your sciatica is disc related then flexion work frequently exacerbates the condition. This exercise program is body weight only but helps strengthen the posterior chain quite well. The workout in the book is akin to what I would recommend in combination with chiropractic adjustments DURING a sciatic flare. You may do other exercises when the pain begins to recede, but this is the basis of a good starting point.

    Foundation Training : Home
    Foundation Training looks pretty interesting based on the TED video and other content there. Thanks for the link.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Can you take a picture of you doing this or something? I can't imagine anybody being able to get into this position, but maybe I'm understanding you wrong.
    I just tried and fell on my ass..... I know knees shouldn't shoot forward, but aiming for absolutely no ankle flexion and a perpendicular tibia seems a little extreme to me.

    Oh wait I was at absolute bottom ATG when I tried.... maybe they mean at a higher level?
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-01-2013 at 12:43 PM.

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