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    Nebbo's Avatar
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    Reasoning with people who insist some people need a high-carb diet

    Primal Fuel
    I know several people who insist that primal/paleo isn't for everybody (which may be true) and that some folks are genetically disposed toward a high-carb diet. One acquaintance assures me that it has something to do with epigenetics (sp) and that it all depends on which genes got switched on or off at a young age. He eats carbs constantly in the form of wheat bread and other grains and says that if he doesn't he just falls apart. I'm not in his body, so I can't really argue with him, but I strongly suspect that if he ate more fats and proteins he wouldn't have to eat the four or five meals a day he's on right now...plus he might not be wound so tight.

    Has anybody else run in to this? I believe these people who say they "need" carbs or they crash. I needed them too, like every two-three hours, before I started getting enough fat and protein in my diet. Now I can fast for 15-18 hours, eat a small concentrated meal, and be good to go for five hours until I have my second and last meal of the day. I used to ride the energy roller coaster, and now I only feel the crash when I fall off the wagon and eat wheat and/or sugar.

    Anyway, I'm rambling, but I'd really like to hear from any nutritionists or geneticists in the room.

    Neb

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    Agh! I would love to know also, I always have people asking me why I do it as well as the "oh I could NEVER not have carbs in my diet I NEED them otherwise I don't have any energy". I am not educated well enough to say exactly why this is false. I started the diet because Dad was on it and he felt so good. But he knows all the scientific facts which kind of went in one ear and out the other for me.

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    Well the neat thing about epigenetics is that genes are constantly being turned on and off and expressed in different ways. We'd be screwed if environmental factors when we were 5 were still in control at age 30. That's not to say they can't still have an effect years down the road. I grew up on a pretty typical SAD diet and I'm still undoing a lot of that damage. Changing what you eat will alter your body, eat good food feel good. Bad food makes us feel like crap. There are people here, myself included, who can't go back to eating SAD without consequences that may not have existed before ( tummy trouble etc).

    The human body is every adaptable. Can people run on high carb? Sure, if we couldn't then most SAD eaters would be dead. Could a lot of those people go primal, still eat carbs and feel great? Yup. They just never give it a shot. I think it's the thought of living without their 100 calorie snack packs that scares them.

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    Are you actually referring to his carb intake or his grain intake? There are many, many sources of primal carbs.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveBug View Post
    Well the neat thing about epigenetics is that genes are constantly being turned on and off and expressed in different ways. We'd be screwed if environmental factors when we were 5 were still in control at age 30.
    It's worse than that!! There is data that shows what your grandparents ate can alter your epigenetics.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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    It's a self-fulfilling prophecy - or a violent circle-like thingy if you prefer.

    Volek/Phinney cover this right at the start of The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, talking about how a high-carb diet locks you into a dependence on carbs as a dominant fuel for exercise, and that the body is inefficient at promptly switching from carbs to fat - so once the carbs are gone the body goes into limp mode until it can kick over to fat metabolism. Of course before that happens you can almost guarantee that the person will have topped up with these "essential" carbohydrates, so serious fat metabolism never really has a chance.

    There you have why "some people need a high-carb diet" in a nutshell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebbo View Post
    Has anybody else run in to this? I believe these people who say they "need" carbs or they crash. I needed them too, like every two-three hours, before I started getting enough fat and protein in my diet. Now I can fast for 15-18 hours, eat a small concentrated meal, and be good to go for five hours until I have my second and last meal of the day. I used to ride the energy roller coaster, and now I only feel the crash when I fall off the wagon and eat wheat and/or sugar.

    Anyway, I'm rambling, but I'd really like to hear from any nutritionists or geneticists in the room.

    Neb
    A nutritionist is taught carbs are king and eating wholes grains is healthy - saturated fat is a health hazard.

    Trying to 'reason' with people about this is futile - let them eat cake.

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    So what do you say to someone who was low carb for a considerable amount of time, during which they were constantly constipated, had no energy, couldn't sleep more than there hours a night, were tortured by cravings, constantly hungry, lost their sex drive, and got severely depressed? You'd probably tell them to "eat more fat", right?

    Some people do need more carbs - everyone is different. Why are we even still talking about this?

    (By carbs I don't mean shit food: I mean fruit, starch, whatever.)
    Last edited by YogaBare; 07-31-2013 at 05:02 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Some people do need more carbs - everyone is different. Why are we even still talking about this?
    Because people will never agree to disagree, or agree that one size does not fit all.

    As jammies said, bread/grains are carbs, but not all carbs are grains. You can still be high-carb and also paleo/primal.

    Based on some DNA testing I purchased, I apparently DO have the gene that tells me it's a really crappy idea for me to eat a high-fat diet, I'm more predisposed to put on actual fat eating that way. My n=1 had proven so, before I even had that done.

    Now as for the OP's friend's excuse, it's pretty weak, and yes he/she could probably do better by stepping away from the wheat. I used to have to eat frequently when I ate that stuff, too.

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    not on the rug's Avatar
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    are you suggesting that paleo/primal is inherently a low carb diet? because it isn't. people who think that paleo isn't for them probably aren't aware that all "paleo/primal" means is that you eliminate processed foods/oils. and people like you probably don't do a good job explaining that to them. so if someone thinks that paleo is low carb, they are wrong. you can make it low carb if you want to, but it isn't inherently that way. and if someone insists that paleo/primal isn't for them, i'd be curious as to why they think they need processed foods/oils to live
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

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