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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Timber View Post
    You guys are Ray Peat believers, and that's ok. Ray Peat is a very smart, forward thinking guy. It can be very difficult to look back and come up the right answers. Have you considered how often forward thinkers are wrong?
    It's inquisitive minds that push innovation forward, though. There are plenty of superseded scientific theories, such as the commonly accepted fact of the Earth being flat, or hollow.

    How many of you believed CW nutritional science not too long ago? Now it's considered crazy to most here, and myself.
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  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    Then maybe the Peat diet just isn't for you, I guess? The more I read about this Peat diet, the less I like it. But others seem to do well on it, perhaps those with out-of-whack hormones. Maybe you could eat a primal/Peat hybrid, like primal with more potatoes. If the only reason for the excessive dairy is for the vitamins, you can make that up with organ meats and kale.
    I'm not a fan of labeling my diet, just trying different tweaks to improve. Also 'cause it's fun to experiment. A lot of dairy makes sense if that's what you have access to. Where I live now, tropical fruits and coconuts are in abundance (i.e. free), so I feel like it's more 'natural' to eat more of that. Cheese here is imported by air.


    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    And am I the only one who kinda hopes that Choco's young-dude metabolism takes a cliff dive when he hits age 35? The Success Story pages are full of men exactly like him: guys who thought they knew it all because they lived on kegs and corn chips in college and yet still attracted ladies with a six pack... then suddenly they are 45, stressed out at work and whoomp! 55 pounds. Not much sympathy here, sorry.
    I'm female and sedentary, hence slower metabolism, but I like how Choco's posts challenge everything we think we know. He may be wrong, but at least he thinks critically and doesn't blindly follow.

    Anyway, his diet isn't kegs and corn chips...

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I'd say I wish my metabolism was like Chaco's rather than Chaco's like mine, I just don't think I can achieve it the way he thinks it can be done by everyone.
    I actually think it can be achieved, just requires a lot of patience and letting go of 'dieting' mentality. Okay, maybe sedentary ladies won't ever be able to eat 3000cals/day, but metabolism must be more flexible than we think because the body adapts.

  4. #254
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    There is the whole long thread about a few non-sedentary women who tried to eat about 2000 cals a day, for a few months to reset their metahbolism. I was one of them. The weight for most of us came up 10 to 20 lbs and never come down. I managed to beat the weight down twice, first after the initial post-pg gain, second after a bulk up. Third time...did not happen. My n=1 is that once weight is lost, die but hold, because methabolic rate is simply low and not getting higher. 1300-1500 is a grim reality for me, and that's with a daily commitment to lifting, cardio and MS. On a day I do not workout (just walk), the only way to keep weight from climbing up a lb or 2 for me is to eat nothing. Not 1000 cals, not 500 cals, nothing. I hate it, because I love eating and I know that I work out because I want to eat... kindda a curse of being a woman, I suppose.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-12-2013 at 09:52 PM.
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  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    There is the whole long thread about a few non-sedentary women who tried to eat about 2000 cals a day, for a few months to reset their metahbolism. I was one of them. The weight for most of us came up 10 to 20 lbs and never come down. I managed to beat the weight down twice, first after the initial post-pg gain, second after a bulk up. Third time...did not happen. My n=1 is that once weight is lost, die but hold, because methabolic rate is simply low and not getting higher. 1300-1500 is a grim reality for me, and that's with a daily commitment to lifting, cardio and MS. On a day I do not workout (just walk), the only way to keep weight from climbing up a lb or 2 for me is to eat nothing. Not 1000 cals, not 500 cals, nothing. I hate it, because I love eating and I know that I work out because I want to eat... kindda a curse of being a woman, I suppose.
    Leida, thanks for sharing.

    This is depressing, maybe it has to do with the type of food, or the length of time is not enough?

    Maybe 1) you are overtraining and that's stressful or 2) gaining muscle thus weighing more?

    Choco mentioned gaining first, then losing as metabolism improves. It's a bigger picture outlook on diet and health that makes sense to me though I have not tried..

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I reeeeally recommend an envelop of gelatine in coffee. Makes the coffee so creamy! And I really think it suppresses the appetite.
    How do you make this work? I bought a bag of gelatine powder, and it has been going mostly unused. When I try to put it in coffee, it mainly coagulates around the spoon and on the bottom of the cup. So I don't really ingest most of it, and it makes it hard to clean the cup and spoon afterwards... Is it a specially prepared gelatine you need?
    Last edited by Ghshl; 08-13-2013 at 12:25 AM.

  7. #257
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    This is depressing, maybe it has to do with the type of food, or the length of time is not enough?

    Maybe 1) you are overtraining and that's stressful or 2) gaining muscle thus weighing more?
    No to all 4. I have been at it for years, so, yeah, I kindda went through all those 'OMG!' things you have listed.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-13-2013 at 07:14 AM.
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  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghshl View Post
    How do you make this work? I bought a bag of gelatine powder, and it has been going mostly unused. When I try to put it in coffee, it mainly coagulates around the spoon and on the bottom of the cup. So I don't really ingest most of it, and it makes it hard to clean the cup and spoon afterwards... Is it a specially prepared gelatine you need?
    I am opposed to any drinks that require a blender (ie, bulletproof, egg in coffee, smoothies, etc). Too much work. I don't know if gelatine is like that, but it sounds like it would require work as well.

    Leida, it sucks that you are having such a hard time. I don't mind all the different suggestions - I am probably eating more carbs than I would otherwise have done and it doesn't seem to be hurting me - but I don't think Choco is right that the things that work for him (or some of the other young guys) will work for the women. I remember my brother eating mountains of food when he was younger and not gaining weight. Eventually, that stops working.

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghshl View Post
    How do you make this work? I bought a bag of gelatine powder, and it has been going mostly unused. When I try to put it in coffee, it mainly coagulates around the spoon and on the bottom of the cup. So I don't really ingest most of it, and it makes it hard to clean the cup and spoon afterwards... Is it a specially prepared gelatine you need?
    Did it come with instructions? You add the gelatin to room temperature or cool water, let it set for a minute, then add your hot beverage (pour the coffee in after). At least, that's how I've been doing it. Or, you can heat the whole thing over the stove and stir and the gelatin should incorporate.
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  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    But Choco's not eating corn chips and kegs of beer; he's eating whole, nutritious foods. I don't think that's increases the risk of metabolic ruin at any age. And to wish metabolic demise to anyone is really juvenile and pretty cruel. I hope everyone can have as much success as Choco at any age!
    The point of my post was that Choco is still a young man. He probably COULD maintain a near-six-pack on corn chips and beer. That is, he thinks he look good because of his Primal but carb-heavy diet, but it's got nothing to do with him.

    Could we please STOP using the term "I just eat whole and unprocessed"? Primal is NOT the only diet which is "whole" and "unprocessed." Your average healthy eater vegan/vegetarian eats "whole" wheat, "whole" rye, "whole" oats, "whole" corn kernals, and "whole" white potatoes, all of which are as whole and as "unprocessed" as meat and cheese. People can get diabetes on whole and "un"processed.

    Am I wishing metabolic ruin on Choco? I dunno. He comes to a Primal forum and tries to pass off his high-carb (more than 200?g/day) diet off on the rest of us as HIS version of "Primal." In my book, that counts as wishing metabolic ruin on ME, and anyone else here who doesn't do well with that level of carb loading. Besides, if/when Choco's metablism slows down when he's older and if/when he gains weight, he won't be "ruined." All he has to do is switch to Primal -- actual by-the-book Primal, mind you, not this constant carb feed version -- and he'll be fine. Maybe even in 21 days.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

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