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Thread: Ray Peat Eating Plan Weight Loss? page 23

  1. #221
    Leida's Avatar
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    Sorry, but this time I don't believe you. You always sound like you know it all, but you change your mind all the time and you believe in your very lastest concept.

    You suggested other things for me in the past, and I earnestly tried. Some worked, some did not, some I was unable to keep up.

    Overall, I am worse off for trying.

    I'd rather kill myself than intentionally eat myself into the same 155 lbs I have escaped 4 years ago. I prefer hungry and shoulder-less 118 to fat 155 at my age. Eating myself up will only end with me being a behemoth again 20 years earlier. I will just stick with eating normally, not dieting, not counting calories, but doing what I can to stop the descent into fat. I will NOT be fat again. I will NOT.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-07-2013 at 09:30 AM.
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  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Sorry, but this time I don't believe you. You always sound like you know it all, but you change your mind all the time and you believe in your very lastest concept.
    Sure I do. When better information is discovered, I modify my approach. I never claimed I know everything - that's why I change my mind on things. I don't have an agenda to promote. I'm not trying to sell you something. Is this a negative to you? Also, me "changing my mind" isn't some radical thing. Modifying my stance on carbohydrate is not radical. I eat the same foods I always eat, and they're almost always Primal. The core concept remains, I just believe potatoes and fruit are healthier than nuts and refined fats. Nothing radical there, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    You suggested other things for me in the past, and I earnestly tried. Some worked, some did not, some I was unable to keep up.

    Overall, I am worse off for trying.
    Gaining knowledge is never a bad thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I'd rather kill myself than intentionally eat myself into the same 155 lbs I have escaped 4 years ago. I prefer hungry and shoulder-less 118 to fat 155 at my age. Eating myself up will only end with me being a behemoth again 20 years earlier. I will just stick with eating normally, not dieting, not counting calories, but doing what I can to stop the descent into fat. I will NOT be fat again. I will NOT.
    This IMO is a sad statement to make. Unfortunately, people that diet themselves into a hole and they refuse to cure themselves because the cure is reverse-dieting. It takes time to break down your body and crush your TDEE, and it may take even longer to recover it. You can't just instantly undo years of damages in some cases, though I believe the body is resilient and can be repaired. Temporarily gaining weight to keep it off permanently isn't a bad thing. I did it, and I was slightly puffier for 6 months to look better for good.

    The most crucial thing here is it isn't "the same 155 lbs." Center your big meals around heavy lifting, keep your protein up, carb cycle, do cardio while you rest and you should gain a high quality 20 lbs, then lose a low quality 10 lbs. Overall, I came out of my hole with about 7 or 8 lbs of muscle. And it took a year to do it.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #223
    Leida's Avatar
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    It makes no sense, because people dieted in the first place to lose the extra weight they put on by not dieting. So, there is absolutely no point to repeat the experience. It's untrue that you somehow get to be a better body comp simply because you get fat on (conversely) better foods than the ones you had before. And I firmly believe that staying overweight in any age is bad, and completely devastating when you are older and a woman. I don't believe I can lose any fat I gain any longer. It's not like you can chose to lose fat. If it was just a matter of creating a tiny caloric deficit the way you did after you gained weight, I'd be back in 120's again by now. So yeah. Agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-07-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    It makes no sense, because people dieted in the first place to lose the extra weight they put on by not dieting. So, there is absolutely no point to repeat the experience. It's untrue that you somehow get to be a better body comp simply because you get fat on (conversely) better foods than the ones you had before. And I firmly believe that staying overweight in any age is bad, and completely devastating when you are older and a woman. I don't believe I can lose any fat I gain any longer. It's not like you can chose to lose fat. If it was just a matter of creating a tiny caloric deficit the way you did after you gained weight, I'd be back in 120's again by now. So yeah. Agree to disagree.
    What you said only makes sense in the context of people gaining and losing the exact same ratio of fat and muscle each time. It happens to normal people because normal people are sedentary, overeat poor quality foods like deep fried refined grain flour and soda while sitting on their butts, then try and "cut down" while starving themselves doing chronic cardio. They gain mostly fat during their "bulking phase," lose mostly lean tissue during their "cutting phase," then when they rebound and binge after their prolonged caloric deficit they wind up in even worse shape than before.

    We aren't normal people because we have superior knowledge of how the body works and which foods best support health and well-being.

    Center your surplus meals post-workout. Make them heavy on protein, very heavy on carbohydrate, light on fat. It's extremely difficult to convert protein and carbohydrate to adipose tissue, so large caloric surpluses following a heavy lift will yield mostly "good" weight gained. Conversely, when you're cutting back down, maintain your lifts to preserve lean muscle tissue, eat post-workout to maintenance and cut your carbohydrate and calories while sedentary to promote fatty acid mobilization, the whole time keeping dietary fat in check since that is the main culprit regarding fat gain.

    Using weight lifting and carbohydrate cycling, it's very easy to make most of your weight gain lean mass and most of your weight loss fat mass. I think you just have to do several bulk/cut cycles until you can maintain a lean body composition at 130 lbs. It may take 3 or 4 cycles if you have trouble, but you can do it. The problem I see is that you never follow through - you get too freaked out seeing your weight increase, bail on the plan and start restricting calories again. Which will make you even worse off than when you started in many cases.

    I promise you, in terms of genetics, I am below average. I am not blessed. If I can do it, you can do it.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 08-07-2013 at 01:12 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #225
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    You gotta like bulk and cut bra... You'll never get Hooooooge if you don't feed da muscle bra... i like icecream wrapped in tortillas topped with whip cream and powder sugar for my bulks bra. Get your protein shake in 4x/day and your golden bra. Then you just like don't eat anything with energy till your to 4% shredded and the judges will be like whoa bro...make sure you get your 3g/body ounce of protein though... feed da muscle bro!
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-07-2013 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Hmmmm... do the muscle mags use bra or bro? I'll alternate.

  6. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You gotta like bulk and cut bra...... feed da muscle bro!
    Laughed so hard I startled the cat. Poor thing.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You gotta like bulk and cut bra... You'll never get Hooooooge if you don't feed da muscle bra... i like icecream wrapped in tortillas topped with whip cream and powder sugar for my bulks bra. Get your protein shake in 4x/day and your golden bra. Then you just like don't eat anything with energy till your to 4% shredded and the judges will be like whoa bro...make sure you get your 3g/body ounce of protein though... feed da muscle bro!
    Best post on this thread

    Leida, I get what Choco's saying, and in a way I think I've just done a bulk n' cut in the last six weeks. I started working out but was still eating loads, and got quite beefy. Then my appetite suppression kicked in, and like I said, I shed 6 lbs in two weeks. I can't measure if it was fat or muscle or water, but my progress pics suggest there was at least some fat loss!

    But anyway, I think you're entering into a really good space with food. Just eat what you want. Do what you feel. I bet the magic will happen then.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Chaco, it works for you, because it is easy for you to lose weight since you are a young male. Whenever I gain weight, I cannot lose it, unless I starve. When I started eating to hunger this October, I rolled up from mid 120's to mid 130's literally in 2-3 weeks. And every day I have to fast and limit my food intake just to stay there. Every time I eat more, I pack on pounds. And they do NOT drop effortlessly. And no, I don't get leaner when I drop weight. And I gain less than 50% muscle when I gain and drop more than that when I lose. When I bulked first time to 132 lbs, I had 107 lbs of muscular mass. Now I am 135 lbs with 105 lbs muscular mass. I think weight gain for me is a very, very bad idea, as I experience the yo-yo effect they warn you about when you end up becoming fatter at the same weight.

    I am almost 40. I am a woman with a pear shape. I am afraid to gain any more fat - I have more than enough. If I can't grow muscle at this BF% with split routines by the end of the year, I am going to say f**k it, and do what everyone else does. Stop eating and lifting, and start spinning. I hate the idea, but it's better be thin and not muscular than fat and not muscular.
    I think women these days believe they should be thinner than their natural 'setpoint'. It's influenced by culture and not about health.

    Although I do understand not wanting to get fat. I have that fear myself-- most of my female relatives were smaller than me when young, and once middle-aged, are all overweight, always exercising, and never being able to lose weight.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You gotta like bulk and cut bra... You'll never get Hooooooge if you don't feed da muscle bra... i like icecream wrapped in tortillas topped with whip cream and powder sugar for my bulks bra. Get your protein shake in 4x/day and your golden bra. Then you just like don't eat anything with energy till your to 4% shredded and the judges will be like whoa bro...make sure you get your 3g/body ounce of protein though... feed da muscle bro!
    NH, you're the best.

    What Choco fails to get is that it's different for girls. We are genetically programmed to hang onto every little bit of excess we gain because we might be having a baby some time soon and need the extra nutrition. We can't just drop those extra pounds like putting down a backpack.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Is there a good link about cheese helping to heal? Most other healing protocols exclude dairy, so I am wondering why dairy is such a big item for Peat.

    Right now the only raw milk product for me will be full fat cheese. YB, do you eat full fat or skim cheese?

    Peat is macro-agnostic, right, as long as you do not eat PUFA?
    I have a question about the dairy. If you can't handle dairy well, what are the alternatives?

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