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Thread: Are deadlifts the best quad work when little hip flexion is desired page 3

  1. #21
    atmetal's Avatar
    atmetal is offline Senior Member
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    You guys certainly know how to sell the chiro. Here's how my day went. I went to Navy Medical and while waiting in the waiting room, I called a chiro. To my surprise, I was able to make an appointment same day. Navy Medical also surprised me when instead of the usual treatment, they actually referred me to xrays and physical therapy. I personally think the xrays will be useless and unrevealing, but at least they actually tried. I'm authorized 24 visits over the next 3 months for PT, but before making an appointment, I waited until the chiro. After discussing my problem as well as the previous back injury I had in December, he immediately found...well, I don't know the terminology, but something in the back hadn't fully closed. He corrected it and told me to keep away from all lower body exercises. So much for maintaining my strength, now I can't even do deadlifts. But if it works, then I'm all for it.

    One thing he said that I didn't like was that squatting all the way down to the heels (ATG) is bad for the knees. I was never breaking world records, yet there are olympic lifters who do massive amounts of weight ATG without problems. Also, full ROM squats are supposed to be natural for humans. Before I ever saw him, I had stopped doing ATG and just went somewhere between parallel and ATG, but this was because I believed it offered the same benefit, but also allowing me to lift more weight. So his criticism of ATG bothered me.

    I also don't think he understood what a squat was. The motion he used to demonstrate problem areas resembled more of a deadlift, but I mentioned deadlifts and he seemed to know about those. In regards to the squat, he even said that the shoulders are supposed to be over the hips. This would be a squat variation in which the torso is upright, such as with front or overhead squats, but a back squat I'm pretty sure the hips are supposed to shoot back away from the shoulders.

    All in all, I'm pretty pleased for $35, which was less than my copay.

  2. #22
    RichMahogany's Avatar
    RichMahogany is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmetal View Post
    You guys certainly know how to sell the chiro. Here's how my day went. I went to Navy Medical and while waiting in the waiting room, I called a chiro. To my surprise, I was able to make an appointment same day. Navy Medical also surprised me when instead of the usual treatment, they actually referred me to xrays and physical therapy. I personally think the xrays will be useless and unrevealing, but at least they actually tried. I'm authorized 24 visits over the next 3 months for PT, but before making an appointment, I waited until the chiro. After discussing my problem as well as the previous back injury I had in December, he immediately found...well, I don't know the terminology, but something in the back hadn't fully closed. He corrected it and told me to keep away from all lower body exercises. So much for maintaining my strength, now I can't even do deadlifts. But if it works, then I'm all for it.

    One thing he said that I didn't like was that squatting all the way down to the heels (ATG) is bad for the knees. I was never breaking world records, yet there are olympic lifters who do massive amounts of weight ATG without problems. Also, full ROM squats are supposed to be natural for humans. Before I ever saw him, I had stopped doing ATG and just went somewhere between parallel and ATG, but this was because I believed it offered the same benefit, but also allowing me to lift more weight. So his criticism of ATG bothered me.

    I also don't think he understood what a squat was. The motion he used to demonstrate problem areas resembled more of a deadlift, but I mentioned deadlifts and he seemed to know about those. In regards to the squat, he even said that the shoulders are supposed to be over the hips. This would be a squat variation in which the torso is upright, such as with front or overhead squats, but a back squat I'm pretty sure the hips are supposed to shoot back away from the shoulders.

    All in all, I'm pretty pleased for $35, which was less than my copay.
    Find a better chiro.

  3. #23
    atmetal's Avatar
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    Because of what he said about ATG squats, or some other reason? I don't have a basis of comparison, but he seemed sufficient. He may not have focused on my hip injury, but his explanation on how this injury could have been affected by my back injury made sense to me. And he did locate my problem spot on the back pretty quickly. I didn't give any hints, and he still found the exact spot I feel pain. I never mentioned this because it was irrelevant to this thread, but if I sit for an hour or two, I get a very slight pain in my back. I was always suspicious that it was from my injury, indicating it never fully healed. Also, I had managed to locate a bulge in my back long before this visit. Again, I was suspicious, but I had no proof that it wasn't there before the injury. After what the chiro did, I no longer can find that bulge.

    Anyway, please explain why you don't think he's good enough. I'm genuinely interested since this is my first chiro.

  4. #24
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    In my opinion it would be a good idea to do yoga, find a good qualified instructor and focus on hip mobility. Your hips and core need to be re-aligned, based on your description you are out of balance.
    Last edited by canuck416; 07-24-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  5. #25
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    Anyway, please explain why you don't think he's good enough. I'm genuinely interested since this is my first chiro
    If he is helping (I assume the goal is to get you active again), then he is good. A lot of chiros have specialties. The guy I used to see was an athlete and understood motions like squatting etc. and took the time to understand my body position during riding and his goal was to fix the pain, then make me strong enough to use my body correctly versus saying "well, don't do that". Meanwhile, my best friend is a chiro and specializes in babies and she was great at pain relief, but not at rehab.

    If you want to return to lifting, I'd be sure to tell your chiro that is the goal. I would not be too concerned about worrying about squat form interpretations- everyone seems to have an opinion on that.

    Did he also adjust your hips? That's one thing both of my chiros did (They have you lay on your side and they press on the hip).
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by atmetal View Post
    Because of what he said about ATG squats, or some other reason? I don't have a basis of comparison, but he seemed sufficient. He may not have focused on my hip injury, but his explanation on how this injury could have been affected by my back injury made sense to me. And he did locate my problem spot on the back pretty quickly. I didn't give any hints, and he still found the exact spot I feel pain. I never mentioned this because it was irrelevant to this thread, but if I sit for an hour or two, I get a very slight pain in my back. I was always suspicious that it was from my injury, indicating it never fully healed. Also, I had managed to locate a bulge in my back long before this visit. Again, I was suspicious, but I had no proof that it wasn't there before the injury. After what the chiro did, I no longer can find that bulge.

    Anyway, please explain why you don't think he's good enough. I'm genuinely interested since this is my first chiro.
    I'd say your fine with this guy long as he can diagnose and treat your problems efficiently. Glad your getting some help.

    Not all Chiropractors focus on athletic and strength training. I would say you found one that does not. So take his strength or athletic training advice with a grain of salt, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water IMO.

    I always find this humorous "I didn't give any hints, and he still found the exact spot I feel pain". As if your testing him. lol. Seriously, just work WITH the fella with full disclosure of all your pain and whatnot. Sometimes pain is referred or due to compensation mechanisms. Chiro's arent vets. Communication between you and him is important. Here's to a speedy recovery!

  7. #27
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    A professional who does not understand the mechanics of a movement (the barbell squat) is not qualified to determine whether said movement is harmful.

  8. #28
    atmetal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    In my opinion it would be a good idea to do yoga, find a good qualified instructor and focus on hip mobility. Your hips and core need to be re-aligned, based on your description you are out of balance.
    While yoga wouldn't be my first choice, I know I haven't put enough importance on hips and core and will certainly change that. My core is especially weak because I always presumed heavy squats were enough for it, but obviously this is not true if I can get DOMS from only a few reps of reverse crunches with a 25 lb counterweight, as did recently happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Did he also adjust your hips? That's one thing both of my chiros did (They have you lay on your side and they press on the hip).
    He did not adjust my hips, but he set up another appointment for Monday. I don't know if he had more to do and needed me out of there for the next appointment, or if he thinks that there will be some changes over the weekend, but whatever it is, he isn't done. Also, I'm not sure how necessary it would be to adjust my hips. Using an analogy, he explained to me that my back injury may have caused the tendons to compensate for some of the force I was under, thereby injuring the hips. So with the back adjusted, my hips may be fine after I give them time to heal. I don't know what a hip adjustment is, but it may also be irrelevant to my pain. If it is the hip flexors, yes, the word "hip" is in there, but the location of my pain is more near the spot where the leg meets the groin (not really the hips).

    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I always find this humorous "I didn't give any hints, and he still found the exact spot I feel pain". As if your testing him. lol. Seriously, just work WITH the fella with full disclosure of all your pain and whatnot. Sometimes pain is referred or due to compensation mechanisms. Chiro's arent vets. Communication between you and him is important. Here's to a speedy recovery!
    What I meant by that was that he was able to find a problem so easily without me guiding him that it really is quite astounding. Also quite annoying that it was so obvious that if the Navy had bothered to take me more seriously back when I injured my back, I probably wouldn't have needed to start this thread. And for all I know, the Navy actually had a chiropractor on site I could have been referred to back in Charleston, which is the only way to get referred to one. Up here in Saratoga Springs, there's no chiro on site, so a referral is impossible. Oh, but they have an acupuncturist in site! Complete BS!

    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    A professional who does not understand the mechanics of a movement (the barbell squat) is not qualified to determine whether said movement is harmful.
    That's why I didn't listen to that part. He did understand that hams and glutes are more activated and told me that there is no extra benefit to those muscles going deeper than parallel. I actually agree with this statement, but there's benefits gained from ATG outside of muscle stimulation that I'm going for. Not to mention that because I'm the only one in the gym using a full ROM, it's actually not embarrassing to lift less than 225 because the others probably have no idea what is considered a respectable ATG squat. Yea, this chiro is "old school," exact words used by one of the [positive] reviews. And I think he's been in business for 20 years or something like that.

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