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Thread: What are the real weight loss benefits of going primal? page 5

  1. #41
    Sharpie2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie14 View Post
    I simply want to understand if this type of diet is really worth it for weight loss and/or weight maintanence if you are not bothered by the increase in hunger on a regular high carb diet
    I'm pretty uninformed compared to some of these others, but I've had good luck losing body fat and maintaining on both types of diets simply by watching my calories and making sure I'm getting enough protein. However, primal has been much easier for me to control cravings. I'm not sure if there really are other benefits to primal for most people (assuming you're getting enough protein and vitamins on a traditional diet), but controlling cravings is one heck of an advantage when trying to cut or maintain.

    Some people appear to find some relief from not eating wheat and dairy, but I'm not one of them. Wheat and dairy have never really bothered me, and I've given them up for months and then gone back, and haven't noticed a bit of difference (with the exception that I get cravings when I eat wheat). Hard to believe it really impacts some people like they claim, but it apparently does, and I'm certainly not going to assume they're not telling the truth. However, since these people have such different reactions to food than I do, I don't really concern myself with what works or doesn't work for them.

    My understanding of primal is that it's not intentionally low carb, just kind of works out that way when you cut back on wheat. I think technically you could eat a ton of fruit, and it would still be primal.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    What matters for weight-loss for EVERYBODY, or more precise – to lose energy stored in the body - is to be in a calorie deficit – that’s undeniable, and there are no way to bypass that! I know that a calorie is only a measure for energy, and that everybody must spend more energy than assimilated or used by our bodies. So if the concept of CICO or calories are too difficult to understand, then we can use strict portion control instead and systematically reduce the amount we are eating! Losing weight is always about eating less than our body’s needs, so it is forced to tap into energy deposits stored in the body. True story folks; nobody has ever lost weight by eating more than the body needs to maintain its weight...
    there is too much assumption in that entire statement man. I actually don't think i disagree with your underlying assumptions but i do disagree with the content of this statement.


    starving ( calorie reduction by any other name) will provoke a loss of mass in the subject for a length of time.

    The data would seem to indicate that as calorie reduction is prolonged the body compensates by decreasing metabolic function. If we disagree on that point the remainder of the conversation is moot.

    given the assumption that a given individual has a overage of adipose tissue ( ignoring water mass and lean muscle) and desires to remove it, provoking a short term reliance on that adipose tissue for fuel is AN option for the reduction of the adipose tissue.

    The embedded assumption is that the adipose tissue in question is loaded with only triglycerides which can be cleaved to provide energy for the body.

    The data would also seem to indicate that an adipose cell is composed of more than lipids. and if that is the case then one must ask what else is inside and why the organism has stored it in the first place.

    Unfortunately i cannot find a generalization that works often enough to claim that CICO is the end all be all to weight management.

    I will say that all things being equal CICO should prevent an overweight situation, however i see no evidence that an overweight situation MUST be resolved following CICO.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Yeah, telling the truth can hit hard sometimes! But there are more than enough of "prophets" telling people to "EAT MOAR!" to lose weight, so listen to them instead...
    at age 42-43, i was starting to gain weight. never ever had a weight problem -- i had always been slim and active. this was hormonal. obviously. and more maddening that you can possibly imagine to be inhabiting a body in full rebellion. i weighed my food on a digital scale and tracked and kept spread sheets. i tried for months to lose weight with various cw methods, including fasting. please don't continue to insult me by suggesting i'm an idiot and won't be accountable for what goes in my mouth.

    i found low-carb.

    i ate the same amount of cals and had the same daily patterns of life.

    i lost weight and inches.

    i got much healthier.

    i found primal.

    i got healthier still.

    puhleeze.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    – Ernest Hemingway

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    at age 42-43, i was starting to gain weight. never ever had a weight problem -- i had always been slim and active. this was hormonal. obviously. and more madening that you can possibly imagine to be inhabiting a body in full rebellion. i weighed my food on a digital scale and tracked and kept spread sheets. i tried for months to lose weight with various cw methods, including fasting. please don't continue to insult me by suggesting i'm an idiot and won't be accountable for what goes in my mouth.

    i found low-carb.

    i ate the same amount of cals and had the same daily patterns of life.

    i lost weight and inches.

    i got much healthier.

    i found primal.

    i got healthier still.

    puhleeze.
    I wont suggest I will infer..... :-)
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    I wont suggest I will infer..... :-)
    you AND gorbag? lol.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    – Ernest Hemingway

  6. #46
    quelsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    you AND gorbag? lol.
    and Chaco, dont forget Chaco
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    there is too much assumption in that entire statement man. I actually don't think i disagree with your underlying assumptions but i do disagree with the content of this statement.



    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    starving ( calorie reduction by any other name) will provoke a loss of mass in the subject for a length of time.
    Starving? When I see that term I think about severe muscle and organ breakdown, that will usually not happen before almost all bodyfat is gone and still no food...


    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    The data would seem to indicate that as calorie reduction is prolonged the body compensates by decreasing metabolic function. If we disagree on that point the remainder of the conversation is moot.
    No disagreement that it happens, but metabolic slowdown is anyway not that big deal, it's not so that dieters reaching the metabolic rate of a person in coma...


    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    given the assumption that a given individual has a overage of adipose tissue ( ignoring water mass and lean muscle) and desires to remove it, provoking a short term reliance on that adipose tissue for fuel is AN option for the reduction of the adipose tissue.

    The embedded assumption is that the adipose tissue in question is loaded with only triglycerides which can be cleaved to provide energy for the body.

    The data would also seem to indicate that an adipose cell is composed of more than lipids. and if that is the case then one must ask what else is inside and why the organism has stored it in the first place.

    Unfortunately i cannot find a generalization that works often enough to claim that CICO is the end all be all to weight management.

    I will say that all things being equal CICO should prevent an overweight situation, however i see no evidence that an overweight situation MUST be resolved following CICO.
    I am not sure that CICO gives any prescription for weight management at all, it's more like an abstract description, it explain what happens when losing or gaining weight...
    Being just an old fashioned guy myself; I’m beyond tired of all these fragile mama boys (and girls!) with powder in their gluteus and soft pillows under their arm pits that cannot recover from their 3 days a week abbreviated “strength” routine…

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    at age 42-43, i was starting to gain weight. never ever had a weight problem -- i had always been slim and active. this was hormonal. obviously. and more maddening that you can possibly imagine to be inhabiting a body in full rebellion. i weighed my food on a digital scale and tracked and kept spread sheets. i tried for months to lose weight with various cw methods, including fasting. please don't continue to insult me by suggesting i'm an idiot and won't be accountable for what goes in my mouth.

    i found low-carb.

    i ate the same amount of cals and had the same daily patterns of life.

    i lost weight and inches.

    i got much healthier.

    i found primal.

    i got healthier still.

    puhleeze.

    Yep, and you lost weight by taking in less calories than you spent by eating primal! You do not need to count calories for that to happen, you know...
    Being just an old fashioned guy myself; I’m beyond tired of all these fragile mama boys (and girls!) with powder in their gluteus and soft pillows under their arm pits that cannot recover from their 3 days a week abbreviated “strength” routine…

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    and this ^^^ is why i don't give 2 shits about the results obtained by males under 30, nor their insistence that eating low-carb/primal is no different for weight loss than any other.

    i have my own n~1 and improved health as personal and very satisfactory proof.
    Your n=1 is all you need. However, it's important to not push your experiences as the rule for everyone (not saying you did this, but it happens a lot).

    I never said anything about my personal experience, so the fact that you don't give two shits about my experience is irrelevant.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    at age 42-43, i was starting to gain weight. never ever had a weight problem -- i had always been slim and active. this was hormonal. obviously. and more maddening that you can possibly imagine to be inhabiting a body in full rebellion. i weighed my food on a digital scale and tracked and kept spread sheets. i tried for months to lose weight with various cw methods, including fasting. please don't continue to insult me by suggesting i'm an idiot and won't be accountable for what goes in my mouth.

    i found low-carb.

    i ate the same amount of cals and had the same daily patterns of life.

    i lost weight and inches.

    i got much healthier.

    i found primal.

    i got healthier still.

    puhleeze.
    I don't understand what you're trying to say.

    When you get older, your metabolic rate slows. Since people eat with their eyes and based on the time of day instead of with their stomachs, people tend to eat the same amount of food while having a progressively lower and lower maintenance calorie level. Not to mention people naturally move around less with age. This is why weight gain occurs. It isn't because of "hormones." It's because people don't decrease their food intake as they age. They see advertisements of what a plate of food should look like and they eat because it's 7:00am, 12:00pm and 6:00pm. That's breakfast, lunch and dinner time.

    I've read multiple studies on how people that "track calories" track their calories. The results are always the same: people who are underweight overestimate their caloric intake and people that are overweight underestimate their caloric intake. Also, people tend to track calories like this:

    Breakfast:
    - 3 large eggs
    - Cooked in 1 Tbsp butter
    - 1 medium apple
    - 3 strips bacon

    This is how to actually track calories:
    - 154g whole egg, raw
    - 9g butter
    - 120g apple, raw
    - 72g bacon

    Do you own a food scale and weigh everything, especially your cooking fats?

    Most people don't track their calories properly. And then you have to factor in the variances in calorie tracking. What kind of apple was it? Was it a ripe apple with a high sugar content or a bland apple with a high water content? How fatty was that bacon exactly? Did it come from big fat CAFO pigs funneled soybean oil or were they leaner, pastured pigs?

    And the biggest factor of all: the CO part of the equation. Most people grossly overestimate their TDEE, usually at the expense of their activity level or their "multiplier." People put 30 seconds into their TDEE calculation with some online calculator. The ONLY way a TDEE is accurately realized is through consistent eating habits, a consistent exercise routine and trial and error. Finding your "CO" is the hardest part of all.

    All these things matter. Please, don't insult my intelligence by some half-claim that calories weren't responsible for your weight loss. It is always CICO, and failure is due to the human factor 100% of the time.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-22-2013 at 12:56 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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