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Thread: What are the real weight loss benefits of going primal? page 13

  1. #121
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    We think in calories because those are the only terms that are quantifiable statistically. That does not make it the correct way to conceptualize nutrition; it just makes it the most scientifically convenient.
    Then couple it with weight being the standard for defining a healthy a body and well, you end up with people malnourishing themselves down to a skinny fat body that is so hungry for nutrition that they can't help but overeat and get fat again.

    Body composition and the nutrition of foods is so much more important to long term health, and IMO, long term weightloss. I'm weighing more, but getting harder and leaner but I eat more.

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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Ok here's the wrap...

    CICO is a generalised term for the "conservation of energy" hypothesis that is commonly written as the first law of thermodynamics.

    Conservation of energy basically means that as energy changes form, it is fully converted to the new form, no energy is ever lost. Although as energy changes from one form, it can split into 2 or more forms of an equal amount of energy, ie chemical energy splits into heat and kinetic when converted in muscle cells.

    Ultimately we (an organism) are a massive ball of energy conversion. Heat, kinetic, potential, electrical & chemical energies are constantly being converted in billions of cells in our bodies at any particular moment and also being lost to the environment. These energy conversions are an incredibly complex process, tho over billions of years of evolution our cells have evolved to a kind of homeostasis where the system just work together.

    The major problem happens when our conscious brain reads an Internet piece and decides to start "controlling" the energy conversion processes from its very limited linear thought process.

    Do you get this? Our conscious minds have a singular thought train. It can only think of one thing at once. Our bodies have billions of energy conversion processes happening at any 1 time. It is almost impossible to subjugate the sub conscious body systems with your conscious mind. Ie impose cico.

    "We" do have some control over the environment and conditions this massive ball of energy conversion (our body) operates in. So in effect we can "encourage" and "influence" CICO, but if you think you can control it, your dreaming.


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    uhm, damn

    are you suggesting what i think you are suggesting?
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    2012
    Pro-CICO argument: "A calorie is a calorie is a calorie, and all calories are used identically by the body for purpose of weight loss or gain."
    Anti-CICO argument: "It's really complicated metabolically."

    2013 Pro-CICO argument: "It's really complicated metabolically. Hey, stop stealing our argument!"
    lol.... your right. Its like they keep moving the target. Started out that everyone knew what the Pro-CICO camp implied. Now they muddy the water by accepting or even integrating the Anti- CICO stuff into their rhetoric and still calling it CICO. Huh?!?! Hey if you wanna accept that hormonal status, TYPES OF CALORIES, and health of the organism are MORE important than the QUANTITY of calories consumed, but still call that CICO...... have at it I suppose.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    uhm, damn

    are you suggesting what i think you are suggesting?
    What's that quelsy?

    A quick summary would be, our bodies aren't exempt from the laws of thermodynamics but you also can't say that simply applying a calorie deficit will result in fat loss in all cases. We are far more complicated than that and have many options our bodies can enact to satisfy these laws.


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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    CICO never said that. CICO says "you need an energy deficit to lose weight and you need an energy surplus to gain weight."

    You are confusing CICO with IIFYM - If It Fits Your Macros.
    Technically CICO never said anything. It doesn't have a mouth or vocals to make noise.

    As an idea perpetuated by certain PEOPLE, as a sum the majority of these people have presented CICO in the manner that eKatherine said (their "argument").

    Hey the idea can change, and perhaps in seeing the rigidness and inaccuracy of what they previously thought was CICO so it has changed. Thats actually a good thing! It's just a bit confusing to those who actually followed this and know what CICO USE to be implying.

  6. #126
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    Somewhere in that calories proper site there was a study where they had 3 different rat chows, low-fat, regular and high fat. They fed some rats these chows in powdered form and some in pellet form. Same calories for all 6 groups. The ones that ate powdered chow gained the most weight and the ones that ate the low-fat powdered chow gained the most weight.

    Modern humans are getting most of their calories from powdered foods: flour, sugar, extruded corn flour, soy protein and other various powdered and liquid things.
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    What's that quelsy?

    A quick summary would be, our bodies aren't exempt from the laws of thermodynamics but you also can't say that simply applying a calorie deficit will result in fat loss in all cases. We are far more complicated than that and have many options our bodies can enact to satisfy these laws.


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    it seems you may be suggesting that attempts to establish conscious control of ones metabolism could derail the process as the subconscious mind attempts to comply
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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    He's not really arguing against CICO per say. He's expanding and talking about nuances of energy expenditure and how it doesn't even out on a daily basis, but more in terms of months and years based on evidence he's presenting from the 1950's! So well within the past hundred years of scientific knowledge you are citing

    Just further proof that CICO is incalculable and even if it was it wouldn't match up in any meaningful and useful manner.
    Well, CICO is the mechanic behind energy fluctuations in our bodies and I agree that the individual dieter cannot calculate this exactly down to the minute details. But it is a useful practical tool to use for many dieters, that know how to use it, and it works in a controlled environment which is confirmed more than sufficient on both animals and humans. Then you have those self-reporting individuals that claim that they got fat on only eating 800 calories per day or those that claim that they can maintain their weight on water and sunshine only…
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  9. #129
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    Then you have those self-reporting individuals that claim that they got fat on only eating 800 calories per day or those that claim that they can maintain their weight on water and sunshine only…
    OK, lol, people are not animals, but there are literally horses called "air ferns". They tend to stay fat with very limited food. My friends had a horse that was very active- they used him for foxhunting which is the equine equivalent of being a trail runner. He got a handful of grain 2x a day to keep him happy, the same amount of hay other horses get and when he was turned out, he had a muzzle which I would say cut back his grass consumption to less than 25% of an unmuzzled horse. Meanwhile, their other hunt horse got 2 scoops of grain 2 times a day (so probably 10x the amount the air fern got) plus the same amount of hay and unlimited grazing. They were both similarly interested in food.

    So I believe it when I hear people claim they could not lose weight on 800 calories a day.

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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    it seems you may be suggesting that attempts to establish conscious control of ones metabolism could derail the process as the subconscious mind attempts to comply
    Yeah pretty much. Although our "subconscious complying" doesn't quite sit right as the right explanation. I feel it's more like "as the subconscious goes on responding to stimuli (stressors) like it does for everything and has done for ever".

    If your lucky enough to provide the stimuli that your subconscious thinks might require the dumping of excess energy reserves then it will do so.



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