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Thread: How am I still not fat adapted?! page 7

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Because there is no scientific basis upon which to claim a low carbohydrate diet would somehow injure or maim the thyroid. Its a meme that needs to die. Actually the adrenal portion may hold a tid bit of biochemical plausibility. The thyroid bit though is just getting old. Too many people are buying into it and its completely rubbish.
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    Carbohydrate Restriction as an Adjunct Treatment for Hypothyroidism | A Worldly Monk

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Because there is no scientific basis upon which to claim a low carbohydrate diet would somehow injure or maim the thyroid. Its a meme that needs to die. Actually the adrenal portion may hold a tid bit of biochemical plausibility. The thyroid bit though is just getting old. Too many people are buying into it and its completely rubbish.
    Thank you. however, does the anecdotal evidence not count? I've read numerous posts on this forum about people who've gone VLC over long periods and suffered the symptoms of thyroid dysfunction like rapid hair loss, increased cold sensitivity and susceptibility to stress. We could put this down to people 'not doing the diet right' but how many people need suffer these consequences before we start questioning the validity of their problems on the diet?

  3. #63
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    There is obviously a subset of people that do not do well on VLC. Not really a debate there. Its true of every macro variance. However, if we really want to know why people are having trouble implementing VLC we gotta look at feesible mechanisms. Of which "damaging the thyroid" is not. So I have no problem with the "I don't do well on VLC so I added carbs".... I do have a problem with "VLC hurt my thyroid so I added carbs".... see the difference? One leaves room for interpretation of a variety of mechanisms while the other makes an assertion that is not backed up by the evidence
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-22-2013 at 06:03 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    There is obviously a subset of people that do not do well on VLC. Not really a debate there. Its true of every macro variance. However, if we really want to know why people are having trouble implementing VLC we gotta look at feesible mechanisms. Of which "damaging the thyroid" is not. So I have no problem with the "I don't do well on VLC so I added carbs".... I do have a problem with "VLC hurt my thyroid so I added carbs".... see the difference? One leaves room for interpretation of a variety of mechanisms while the other makes an assertion that is not backed up by the evidence
    Gotcha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie14 View Post
    I have been on the standard keto diet for 4 weeks now (20 carbs or less per day) but have been eating less than 50 carbs per day for a total of 2 months. I am still dealing with "keto flu" symptoms. I am very tired, my muscles feel sort of achy and weak, I feel this strange pressure in the front of my head, I am having trouble concentrating, and I just feel kind of stupid. I also have this weird hunger sensation almost all the time. My stomach isnít growling or anything, I am not actually hungry, I just feel this need to eat and am never truly satiated. I canít really explain it but its not a very pleasant feeling. Its strange because there where some points throughout this transition when I have felt significantly better but most of the time I just feel like ****.

    I take a multivitamin every day which contains magnesium and iodine. I eat a lot of spinach and poultry so my potassium levels should be ok. I add some salt when I cook my food. I am also trying to drink a lot of water and I make sure to consume saturated fat a few times per day. I do 3 full body lifting workouts and about 3 hours of low-moderate intensity cardio per week. The program I am following has 1 heavy day, 1 medium and 1 light day per week. I am 5í1 and 104 pounds and am eating 1450 calories per day. My macros are: 58.5/36/5.5 (Fat, protein, carbs).

    My fear is that I may have accidently gone over on carbs (around 40-50 grams per day instead of <20) 2 weekends ago because I was eating in restaurants. I read that if you have too many carbs one time you have to start the induction phase all over again.

    Does anyone have any thoughts about what I am doing wrong or personal experiences about how you felt while adapting?

    Thank for reading!
    You've described some of the classic symptoms of overtraining.

    Lifting once a week will maintain muscle mass in someone your age, and the cardio is a complete waste of time. Substitute one MAYBE two HIIT sessions for the cardio.

    Also, anyone who's training with a low-carb diet should read "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" by Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek.

  6. #66
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    If you've found an easy way for this to be done, outside of complete beginners, please bless us with your knowledge.
    Follow the Primal blueprint, coming from a junk food/malnourished-and-overweight lifestyle, eat beyond satiety always, IF daily and lift heavy/bodyweight stuff intermittently so your muscles have time to grow. Always eat too much meat. And then a little more. Seriously, that is probably the hugest key to unlocking good body comp. Gains will plateau, but muscles will grow as fat vanishes. That was my experience, anyway.

    If you are already healthy-ish, then it might not work. But when you go from macaroni and cheese and spaghetti to steak and salmon, body repair is inevitable.


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  7. #67
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    Well, if we were all to follow the wizened advice of our meta-analysis researcher extraordinaire Mr. Sisson we would not be VLC. He does not advise it long term. For anyone. Hmm... I do wonder why. Don't forget that Taubs wrote about the research surrounding VLC for weight loss, not overall health. He also said that bed rest was better than exercise for weight loss. Additionally, I ask, what traditional tribes are VLC? Inuit? Don't forget they have arctic tubers and berries for part of the yr. Are your ancestors Inuit? Perhaps then it might be a good idea.

    I agree with Sisson and Stefani Re fasting. Paleo for Women | Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature
    Paleo for Women | Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature


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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    If you are already healthy-ish, then it might not work. But when you go from macaroni and cheese and spaghetti to steak and salmon, body repair is inevitable.
    You should have made this caveat when you wrote the original post. Of course you will see vast improvements if you go from completely horrible and inadequate nutrition and no exercise to quality nutrition and exercise. No one is arguing against this.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by me2 View Post
    Oh lawd don't do it sister. I thought ketosis was a grand idea, until it totally messed up my thyroid and I WAS TIRED ALL THE TIME. Sound familiar? Yeah for real our ladyparts need the carbs. and enjoy them. Paleo for Women | Carbohydrates for Fertility and Health
    Agreed. My experience pretty much mirrors what you are describing. And thanks for that article. I'm not sure why she chooses to advocate for glucose mostly, but I still agree with the overall premise.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by me2 View Post
    Well, if we were all to follow the wizened advice of our meta-analysis researcher extraordinaire Mr. Sisson we would not be VLC. He does not advise it long term. For anyone. Hmm... I do wonder why. Don't forget that Taubs wrote about the research surrounding VLC for weight loss, not overall health. He also said that bed rest was better than exercise for weight loss. Additionally, I ask, what traditional tribes are VLC? Inuit? Don't forget they have arctic tubers and berries for part of the yr. Are your ancestors Inuit? Perhaps then it might be a good idea.

    I agree with Sisson and Stefani Re fasting. Paleo for Women | Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature
    Paleo for Women | Shattering the Myth of Fasting for Women: A Review of Female-Specific Responses to Fasting in the Literature


    One last request, can we keep our conversations civil even if we disagree? Thanks.
    Now sarcasm isn't civil! Geee whiz!

    Anyway I was pointing out one specific mechanism and what I believe to be an incorrect assumption in regards to low carb and thyroid health. It seems your expanding this to everyone and every circumstance everywhere. I don't know who said that ketosis is key for every one in every circumstance, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't me. I made a very deliberate point about just one aspect of low carb.

    Far as women and fasting, its probably only as variable as any single individual response and health status when attempting IF. Pklopp actually wrote a good response to that article you link. You should give it a read. Seems the insulin resistance of the two genders where a huge confounder in at least one of those major studies on humans.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-24-2013 at 10:35 AM.

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