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Thread: Newbie - feeling great but scales not moving page 5

  1. #41
    dragonjax's Avatar
    dragonjax is offline Senior Member
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    Feel free to take this advice and put it on the compost pile...but try not to measure your triumphs by what the scale says. Water retention, stress, poor sleep...these are just some of the things that can keep the number on the scale from moving. If your body composition is changing (for the better), then try to use that as your guide, because the scale can lie.
    F, 43 years old, 4 feet 11.5 inches (yes, that half inch matters!)

    **First-ever 5K race 11/28/13: 37 minutes, 18+ seconds, no stopping**

  2. #42
    oxide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgerfaced View Post
    @oxide

    what should I replace the fat calories with? Or are you saying I should be eating 1200 cals a day? I'm 5'4
    Badgerfaced, I'm sorry I didn't get to reply right away.

    Short version: don't replace those calories with ANYTHING. So yes, I do think you should be eating 1200-1400 calories per day. Some of the calorie reduction should be in protein, but most of the reduction should be in fat.

    Now I'm going to launch into a very simplified and stylized explanation. Other posters are correct in that metabolism is more complex. But IMO this explanation is good enough for weight loss.

    Explanation: Our bodies have the ability to make hormones to burn sugar and to burn fat. CW SADs are so used to sugar that the body makes mostly sugar burn hormones and don't make many fat burning hormones. It's even worse if you're on a low-fat diet. Your body has even less reason to make fat-burning hormones. If you're a sugar burner, when you use up all your sugar, your body doesn't automatically turn to burning fat. Your body doesn't know how to burn fat, in fact your body doesn't know that it's fat. Instead of looking toward the fat, your hungry SAD body just screams out for more sugar. That's the "hunger" you're feeling. So you SAD body fills up on sugar and leaves the fat untouched.

    So Step 1 in going Primal/Paleo for weight loss is to get your body to make and use those fat-burner hormones, to re-learn how to burn fat. The way to do this is to eat lots of fat and no sugar/carbs. This forces your body to learn to metabolize fat. Carb flu is part of this transition.

    It sounds like you've already completed the transition in Step 1. After a month of strict Primal, you feel great, so your body is likely a fat-burner. Step 2 is to cut your fat intake. This is when Primal starts to LOOK like CICO, but not quite. Instead of calories in minus calories out, think of it as fat grams in minus fat grams out. To reword the old saying, a fat gram IS a fat gram IS a fat gram. As a fat burner, to lose weight you need to eat less fat grams than you burn. And yes it is that simple, but only after your body has ramped up the hormones to burn fat..

    How many calories or fat grams do you need in a day so you can produce an energy deficit? I don't know exactly, but general consensus is that 1500-1700 is maintenance for a sedentary Primal woman. Since you have extra fat to burn, you need to take in less. This is why I advocated reducing your calories to 1200-1400 by eating less fat. It doesn't sounds like much food, but remember, those calories are fat and protein now. Once you get used to it, those 1200-1400 calories will be VERY filling.

    The problem with SW CICO is that CW doesn't understand that you have to get off of carbs and turn into a fat burner FIRST. After that, THEN it turns into an energy deficit. But instead of counting calories, you count your fat grams. (this is in addition to limiting your carb grams, of course.)
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    The problem with SW CICO is that CW doesn't understand that you have to get off of carbs and turn into a fat burner FIRST. After that, THEN it turns into an energy deficit. But instead of counting calories, you count your fat grams. (this is in addition to limiting your carb grams, of course.)
    I don't buy this. An energy deficit is an energy deficit. When protein is kept the same, research continually shows that there is no difference in weight loss between those on a high carb diet vs. those on a high fat diet. It's the caloric intake and protein intake that makes the biggest difference.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    I don't buy this. An energy deficit is an energy deficit. When protein is kept the same, research continually shows that there is no difference in weight loss between those on a high carb diet vs. those on a high fat diet. It's the caloric intake and protein intake that makes the biggest difference.
    And resistance training!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    And resistance training!
    Eh. It's overrated.


    Kidding
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  6. #46
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    Very disappointed at low fat low cal, mad exercise advice

    Ummmm...I am pretty shocked at what I am reading here.

    Okay, so a person will often come to this site and Mark's great book after a long time failing and failing to maintain a proper weight doing just CICO and low fat and very low calorie eating, combined with as much full-on exercise as they can handle. Doing this has often made them gain a TON of weight and this has caused them just so much suffering and pain and guilt and all the rest of it. A huge part of it is bad advice, but they often blame themselves for it, for somehow not geting low fat, low cal and lots of exercise to work. But of course it doesn't work for 95% of us.

    But yay! Finally, they get this book, and get some far better information! Finally they have a chance to be successful because they have accurate information and a plan based on real science. The myths about low fat diets being healthiest and the best way to lose weight are busted, as are myths about the need for extreme exercise to lose weight. They no longer think they have to starve themselves *and* exercise madly while hungry to lose weight. A hideous combination to do, and that just doesn't work anyway - after the first 3 months of adrenaline runs out (for almost all of us).

    They hit a tiny possible speed hump with their progress, which is still pretty amazingly good, and come here for advice on how to maybe just fine tune what they are doing. A site that is run by Mark Sisson. Here they are told:

    * Research shows cals from carbs or fat makes no difference to weight loss. (Yes, that is true. Well, in bizarro world it is.....Grrr!)
    * You need to eat only 1200 cals
    * You need to eat far fewer cals, probably 1200, and also make sure you cut out lots of fat. Eating fat makes you fat. (Ugh!)
    * CICO is it. (Blah blah blah.)


    In short, this person who is doing so well FINALLY not just for WL but for health, but just needs the tiniest tweaks to the diet...or just to wait a bit longer to see some more concrete results...has been told what she needs to do is do all the same stuff she has been doing for more than a decade! ***The same stuff that didn't work at all for a decade.***

    Gee, how spectacularly unhelpful and counter-productive.

    I'm not sure what the point is of posting here on a site based on and insprired by such a great myth busting book and promoting so many CW myths in such a full on way. With hugest respect and primal hugs to those who did write great stuff here too about not using scale as only measure of success, and to just keep going with it and results will come more in time most likely. Those responses were wonderful and just great to read and I so agree with them. Thank you, you guys!

    I suppose the answer is that it is just a free world and ppl can post what they like here and it is up to readers to do their own sorting and editing and deciding who they'll listen to. Fair enough, really. But it must confuse the hell out of newbies which is a real shame. Going against CW is so difficult and confidence in it can be so fragile those first few months before you've seen long term results. Old timers can see it for the bad and unscientific advice it is but...well, I'm so sad to have to realise today that no longer can I at all recommend this forum to ppl who really need to get the PB message.

    Such a shame. I'm such a huge PB promoter...well, just the book now, anyway.

    Best wishes for future health to everyone reading:)

  7. #47
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    Wow! That's really true ... I just realised if I sum up the advice here I've been told to eat low Cal with a possibly high carb count( as long as protein stable,) and do exercise. That's EXACTLY what I've been doing for the last 15 years! And look where its got me! I knew something wasn't quite right here. I loved marks book and the messages in it, I think some may need to re-read it and remind themselves of his ideas and explanations.

    Thank you JBHbird!

  8. #48
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Yes, and all his *research* and also the research...the tons and tons of it...in other good or great books like Primal Body, Primal Mind...Eat Fat, Lose Fat..The Schwartzbein Principle...Good Calories, Bad Calories...Deep Nutrition...Gut and Psychology Syndrome (The GAPS Diet)...Fat: It's not what you think...Know Your Fats...Nourishing Traditions....Trick and Treat....The Perfect Health Diet...A Life Unburdened: Getting Over Weight and Getting on with My Life...and even The Vegatarian Myth (which talks about need for lots of healthy fats) and Minding My Mitochondria......and so so so so many more!

    The truth is out there and it is not low cal, high carb and low fat etc. For sure.

    Yay for good books. So useful if you actually *read* them, I agree All the best!

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