Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 78

Thread: Can you get strong without deadlift? page 5

  1. #41
    Leida's Avatar
    Leida is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,785
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    I read in Ferris that a coach to a woman's team makes his players (it's either soccer or football team, can't remember which, with the American terms) to lift to the knees only and drop. IIRC he does it to spare legs, but I am wondering if it will be LB sparing as well. However, when my PT reset my form, I found that back pain was from the 'ass waving in the air' error. It taxes flexibility to do a proper pull for me, so I was slipping into stiffer legs. Not any more. I sacrificed a lot of weight on a lift, but my back is happy!
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

  2. #42
    RichMahogany's Avatar
    RichMahogany is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,440
    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I read in Ferris that a coach to a woman's team makes his players (it's either soccer or football team, can't remember which, with the American terms) to lift to the knees only and drop. IIRC he does it to spare legs, but I am wondering if it will be LB sparing as well. However, when my PT reset my form, I found that back pain was from the 'ass waving in the air' error. It taxes flexibility to do a proper pull for me, so I was slipping into stiffer legs. Not any more. I sacrificed a lot of weight on a lift, but my back is happy!
    The back is hugely involved in breaking the weight off the floor. I don't see how doing half reps is a solution to back issues.

    What is the "ass waving in the air" error? I never heard of such a thing. Are you saying that deadlifting with high hips is an error? Because you can't do a heavy deadlift any other way. You can start with your butt low, but if you video tape a heavy rep, you'll find your hips come up before the bar comes off the floor. Because they must.

  3. #43
    magnolia1973's Avatar
    magnolia1973 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,941
    I like deadlifts....I thought part of the point of it was to strengthen your back and core (among other things)? I do feel most things in my back a bit- squats and deadlift.

    That said, it would freak me out of something popped or pulled.

    Randomly, our coach was explaining sumo deadlifts and pointed out it was similar to the movement of a box squat, just with the weight on your back. Might be something to consider.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  4. #44
    canuck416's Avatar
    canuck416 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Sebastopol, CA
    Posts
    1,264
    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    Tell that to strongmen, powerlifters, olympic lifters, professional athletes, or basically anyone who knows a thing about actual strength
    I'd be telling them something they already know. Been doing strength training for years, worked with some of the best. Athletes in all sports employ periodization, continually updating, changing and challenging themselves with new techniques, exercises and diets.

  5. #45
    dilberryhoundog's Avatar
    dilberryhoundog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    550
    Hey sbhikes,
    Canucks advice seems the best. Vary it up girl.
    The big problem I see with amateurs lifting iron (meaning non comp lifters) is that we use lifts to gauge strength increases. (Like using only scales to measure our success in recovery from obesity). Use something a bit more ubiquitous to measure strength gains like, how fast can you drive up that hill on your bicycle (uses posterior chain).

    The reason I find this so, is due to stress mechanics. The longer you ask your body to adapt to a specific stress (deadlift) the closer you need to get to the damage threshold to continue to see gains. Getting closer to your damage threshold means longer rest periods, but most protocols don't adjust for this (eg you lift M,W,F no matter what). So eventually your lifting when you haven't finished recovering from your last lift, do this regularly and you'll start Chronicly stressing yourself. Chronic stressing has the effect of slowly lowering your damage threshold, one time you'll go to lift the same weight you've been lifting for months and POP there goes something, because your damage threshold lowered more than the weights you where lifting.

    If I where to do deadlifts I would measure their effects on my body by going for bike ride or climbing a steep trail. I would vary the protocol thus; my reps would for a particular session I would choose somewhere between 2 and 10 reps (change it every time). I would estimate a weight to put on the bar that will challenge me in that rep range. As I lift, if I can't make the reps I would stop so I don't cause damage. If it was too easy, keep going until spent. If this happened keep a mental note so you can dail in the correct weights next time you attempt the lift. One set is all I would do and recover as long as you need, could be a day, could be a week. Over recovery can also be fantastic as well, this is where you have fully recovered but still don't lift for a few more days yet.

    Anyway hope you recover quickly and when you do, don't go back to a strict lifting protocol (like dieting hey), good luck.


    Sent from my iPhone
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

  6. #46
    quikky's Avatar
    quikky is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,059
    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    The big problem I see with amateurs lifting iron (meaning non comp lifters) is that we use lifts to gauge strength increases.
    If your lifts are heavier, you are stronger. It's not any more complicated than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Use something a bit more ubiquitous to measure strength gains like, how fast can you drive up that hill on your bicycle (uses posterior chain).
    Sprinting up a hill on a bicycle is not a measure of pure strength, it's a measure of power (strength expressed quickly), conditioning, and to some degree technique.

  7. #47
    RichMahogany's Avatar
    RichMahogany is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,440
    I'm in the camp that novice lifters need very little variety, and that variety should come in the form of adding weight to the bar every time they perform the main lifts. The guys at Westside Barbell have maxed out their gains from just adding weight to the bar and doing plain ass squats (for example), so they use variations of the squat to continue to drive progress. I hope we all get that strong some day. But until we do, the variation we require is more weight on the bar. Novices can add weight every workout. Intermediates need to play with rep schemes and can add weight approximately weekly. Advanced lifters may require a month or longer of varying rep schemes to add weight to the bar. And elite lifters my need to get advanced. No offense, sbhikes, but you and I aren't getting invited to train with Louis Simmons any time in the foreseeable future.

  8. #48
    Stacy15's Avatar
    Stacy15 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    I'm in the camp that novice lifters need very little variety, and that variety should come in the form of adding weight to the bar every time they perform the main lifts. The guys at Westside Barbell have maxed out their gains from just adding weight to the bar and doing plain ass squats (for example), so they use variations of the squat to continue to drive progress. I hope we all get that strong some day. But until we do, the variation we require is more weight on the bar. Novices can add weight every workout. Intermediates need to play with rep schemes and can add weight approximately weekly. Advanced lifters may require a month or longer of varying rep schemes to add weight to the bar. And elite lifters my need to get advanced. No offense, sbhikes, but you and I aren't getting invited to train with Louis Simmons any time in the foreseeable future.
    You think women can advance at this rate too? Starting out I advanced fairly quickly adding 5-10 lbs to each week, but seemed to hit a max in a sense. My squat is still progressing slowly, although I did basically start over to get lower. Benching I can't seem to move as fast. I stalled for a while (2 months) at 135. 145 I've been at for a while now. I do 5x5's.

  9. #49
    RichMahogany's Avatar
    RichMahogany is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    7,440
    Quote Originally Posted by Stacy15 View Post
    You think women can advance at this rate too? Starting out I advanced fairly quickly adding 5-10 lbs to each week, but seemed to hit a max in a sense. My squat is still progressing slowly, although I did basically start over to get lower. Benching I can't seem to move as fast. I stalled for a while (2 months) at 135. 145 I've been at for a while now. I do 5x5's.
    Sex is among the factors that go into determining the rate at which you can advance. I'm a dude and some of my lifts are only progressing in 2.5lb increments right now. I write the programming for my lady friend and her upper body lifts are going up by 1.25 pounds a session. I have a combination of 2" ID industrial washers and baseball bat weights that allow us to "microload." You can buy purpose-built microplates if you're fancier than I am. But the idea is to lift more every time for as long as you can.

  10. #50
    dilberryhoundog's Avatar
    dilberryhoundog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    550
    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    If your lifts are heavier, you are stronger. It's not any more complicated than that.
    Until you fuck out and crash and burn from pushing too hard because you blindly followed a simple "uncomplicated" ideal. You might have been stronger than me for a year or 2 while the simple rule is working, after that I'm stronger because your dealing with a torn pectoral or a chronic back issue, because you flirted with the damage threshold and lost.
    For an analog see all the people who blindly follow low carb, low cal, their scale weight drops so they're successful right? by your measuring metric. 6 months later they've fucked their metabolisms (sometimes irreparably) and end up worse off.

    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    Sprinting up a hill on a bicycle is not a measure of pure strength, it's a measure of power (strength expressed quickly), conditioning, and to some degree technique.
    Yep and this is my point. Bicycle hill sprints is the full picture. Deadlifts are not the full picture unless your competing in a deadlift competition.

    Do we measure the success of our financial portfolio by saying our 25% in property has risen by 10% we are a success. Yet our our total portfolio might have dropped by 15%.

    The full picture results is what we are after (If full picture is not what your after, don't advise people on lifting protocols). So therefore it is logical to measure them by that metric also.


    Sent from my iPhone
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •