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  1. #11
    magnolia1973's Avatar
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    For me, I feel like a switch just cut off the binges when I became renourished. I think the cycle begins and is run biologically thru malnourishment, then sustained by the cycle of guilt. "I can't control myself", "I need more willpower", "I suck because I eat like this". I always thought my problem was some moral lack of control. Now I feel pretty certain it was a lack of nutrients and fat from the cycle of starving myself with low fat.

    I have a pan of brownies in my fridge from this weekend. I haven't had one. 3 years ago... that pan would be gone. I'm not a better person now. I just make the decision to eat bacon, eggs and steak instead of eggwhites, low fat tofu and fat free tortillas.

    I think you will find that as you continue to eat good whole foods, a lot of the desire to binge will go away. For me, low carb helped at the beginning, because quite frankly, I do believe I was starved for fat. Now I tend to a more moderate carb diet, still plenty of fat, but I can have some carbs and it doesn't set off big binges (disclaimer, I work out HARD and when I am not working out like on weekends, I don't tend to want carbs as much).

    You'll get there- it just takes a while. I think for some of us, healing the damage of the diet/binge cycle will take years not months.

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    For me, I feel like a switch just cut off the binges when I became renourished. I think the cycle begins and is run biologically thru malnourishment, then sustained by the cycle of guilt. "I can't control myself", "I need more willpower", "I suck because I eat like this". I always thought my problem was some moral lack of control. Now I feel pretty certain it was a lack of nutrients and fat from the cycle of starving myself with low fat.
    I definitely agree that this is the case a lot of the time, but I know in my case that I broke the main binging problem with refeeding, and relearning an attitude to food BUT - there are still times when I am not hungry, but desperate to eat, and this is a response to stress hormones.

    I think EDs are part-learned behaviour, part-metabolic issue, part-malnourishment.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    I definitely agree that this is the case a lot of the time, but I know in my case that I broke the main binging problem with refeeding, and relearning an attitude to food BUT - there are still times when I am not hungry, but desperate to eat, and this is a response to stress hormones.

    I think EDs are part-learned behaviour, part-metabolic issue, part-malnourishment.
    This is definitely the case for me. I have been struggling against BED as long as I can remember (buttered saltines and salted, cold, cooked potatoes at age 3, I actually remember this). Going paleo has done the most to diminish the urges, but all I have to do is get a little extra-stressed out, have a negative interaction with the wrong person in my life, or stay up past the point of being tired, and I can fall into an all-out, sugar-driven binge. And not necessarily cake/candy, as I don't keep those things around. I can binge on dates or figs, too. I also have to avoid eating meals with people whom I know don't understand my food dynamic. I don't enjoy having to manage myself so intensively, but most of the time, it's not that bad--as long as I am cruising along, making the meals and basically in control of my days.

    I am doing a thousand times better than I have been in the past, but it is still some days rough going. I have to stay incredibly conscious, to the point of being vigilant, when it comes to food. Snacks are dangerous territory so I am trying to train myself off them entirely, and at meals, I try very hard to be full in advance of the presence of any fruit, so I can truly have just a taste of something.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    The other thing that has helped me has been CrossFit. I view my body and food in a new light. I eat foods to build muscle and fuel a workout. And I finally FINALLY like my body because it is strong and good at doing strong things. I'm disconnecting from the cycle of body shame food punishment. I'm not ashamed to eat a big meal as I know I work hard AND I finally trust that I needed the big meal and will go back to smaller meals. Does that make sense at all?

    Now, I am at a point where my body is nourished so I get accurate cravings. I don't eat fake foods that mess that up. So I trust my body when it says "banana pancakes" or "Cuban sandwich" because it also says "steak and asparagus" or "chicken breast and salad" and I listen. So all the sudden, what I desire to eat is a simple response to what I need on any given day and not driven by guilt, punishment, craving or anxiety.

    And yeah.... I still have issues. But they are not dealt with by eating anymore. If anything I avoid a lot of people now.

    But yeah, it's like having a 500lb gorilla off my back in terms of eating.
    CrossFit has also been a huge help for me as we'll.
    when I do binge on non-Primal foods the time frame/amount is lessened. So longer between and less/shorter
    = )
    Of course one day I hope to be free of it completely...
    Barb - Portland, Oregon

    "Everything is as it should be given what has gone before. This is not an excuse but it is a reason"
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  5. #15
    diene's Avatar
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    Since starting JUDDD (Johnson's up day down day diet), I've noticed how much of my need to eat is driven by stress. As soon as I get a new assignment at work that needed to be done yesterday (extreme time pressure) or that is going to be very challenging and annoying, I want FOOD. On easy, low-stress days, my down days are super easy. I can easily do a 30-hour fast now (full fast, not the 500-calorie thing). But when I feel stressed out, I want/need food. I have not figured out how to fix it. Not sure why my response to stress is food. It's not like the food is going to make the work any less annoying.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldFarmer View Post
    This is definitely the case for me. I have been struggling against BED as long as I can remember (buttered saltines and salted, cold, cooked potatoes at age 3, I actually remember this). Going paleo has done the most to diminish the urges, but all I have to do is get a little extra-stressed out, have a negative interaction with the wrong person in my life, or stay up past the point of being tired, and I can fall into an all-out, sugar-driven binge. And not necessarily cake/candy, as I don't keep those things around. I can binge on dates or figs, too. I also have to avoid eating meals with people whom I know don't understand my food dynamic. I don't enjoy having to manage myself so intensively, but most of the time, it's not that bad--as long as I am cruising along, making the meals and basically in control of my days.

    I am doing a thousand times better than I have been in the past, but it is still some days rough going. I have to stay incredibly conscious, to the point of being vigilant, when it comes to food. Snacks are dangerous territory so I am trying to train myself off them entirely, and at meals, I try very hard to be full in advance of the presence of any fruit, so I can truly have just a taste of something.
    Well, I have to say: a large component of it is how much you are restricting versus what your metabolic needs are. I've discovered that I cannot undereat because it has an instant adverse metabolic affect. I have health issues, and I realise that for all these years I've been medicating using food: it's probably the reason that I have not gotten really sick.

    In the past I would restrict so I'd be thinner, but it would eventually culminate in horrific binges. Now I just eat as much as I need to. (I'm a 5'8, moderately active female, about 23% bf and eat 2,300 cals a day, but some days I'll eat 3K). I don't think I need this much food: I believe metabolic issues are driving me to eat a lot more than I probably need. But eating a lot is no longer a binge, and is no longer filled with feelings of self loathing, because my perception has changed.

    So, in a nutshell: binging can be caused by:

    - Food addictions
    - Restriction
    - Metabolic issues (combined with restriction)

    Don't know if that makes sense or not: It's a complicated issue. But I'm happy to say I've largely recovered from BED just by allowing myself to eat. I still want to be thinner, but I'm working on sorting out the metabolic issues and getting fit first.


    Quote Originally Posted by diene View Post
    Since starting JUDDD (Johnson's up day down day diet), I've noticed how much of my need to eat is driven by stress. As soon as I get a new assignment at work that needed to be done yesterday (extreme time pressure) or that is going to be very challenging and annoying, I want FOOD. On easy, low-stress days, my down days are super easy. I can easily do a 30-hour fast now (full fast, not the 500-calorie thing). But when I feel stressed out, I want/need food. I have not figured out how to fix it. Not sure why my response to stress is food. It's not like the food is going to make the work any less annoying.
    Eating relieves stress!

    This is what I mean by 'metabolic issues'. Hormonal imbalances (like too much cortisol) can be alleviated by putting the right thing into the body. Some people pop valium, other people eat. It's the subconscious mind trying to restore equilibrium to the organism.
    Last edited by YogaBare; 07-18-2013 at 10:57 AM.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  7. #17
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    I think a lot of the time binging is a direct result of nutritional issues. But women are encouraged to blame themselves for being "emotional eaters" because some passing emotional issue triggered a binge that was inevitable. I know I only binge when I low on protein or fat.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    I think a lot of the time binging is a direct result of nutritional issues. But women are encouraged to blame themselves for being "emotional eaters" because some passing emotional issue triggered a binge that was inevitable. I know I only binge when I low on protein or fat.
    It's true, but a lot of binging is driven by stress, and stress is a kind of emotion. People forget that emotions are largely driven by hormones.

    A balanced diet definitely helps, but it's not the answer to everything.
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #19
    diene's Avatar
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    Time to get me some valium.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by YogaBare View Post
    Primal Freedom, when you eat emotionally, what the feeling that accompanies it? Do you feel out of control, reckless, followed by shame, guilt and self loathing? Or is it with a feeling of dull depression, apathy? Or something else?

    The reason I ask is cos there's a big difference between binging, and boredom / emotional eating. It's the difference between feeling like you're possessed by a demon that needs food, and picking at food cos' you don't think you deserve to be thin. Hormones, emotions, and metabolic issues play different roles in these issues, depending on what form yours takes.

    Do either of those sound like you, or is it something else?
    I don't feel I'm out of control, what I have recently been feeling is "eating this will help me feel better/comforted/relaxed, etc."

    The crazy, out of control binges dont exist anymore. I can pull myself it of them, pretty much I justify testing a very large portion of trigger food for various emotional reasons.

    I'm guessing journaling (food and feelings) and accountability are my best bet. Brutal honesty...ouch!


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