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Thread: New (vegan) member with some questions! page 2

  1. #11
    Gadsie's Avatar
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    I think that people who do well on a vegan diet do so well because they have still have reserves left because they are lucky enough to have parents or grandparents that ate plenty of quality animal products. However when these reserves are gone you are towed down very fast. I don't think there has ever been a 5-6+ generation family that stayed healthy on only plantfood.
    well then

  2. #12
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    Libby I understand your sentiment about not wanting to kill animals, but I have to question your use of the word "pleasure" I do not eat animals for my pleasure, it is for survival. No living thing can escape the cycle of life or it's biology, we eat and are eaten; it's a fantasy to think you can escape that reality. You can chose to eat ethically raised meats, or if that feels wrong eat eggs that are raised by hens w/o roosters (no chance that the egg will become a chick) or eat oysters (they have no central nervous system).

    To me it is also about relationships; eating veggies and meat that we raise ourselves (pigs & chickens) or from farmers we know versus relying on corporations to produce my food. It would be extremely difficult if not impossible for me to be a vegan and get my food locally let alone grow it myself, I would have to rely on food that is grown and processed far away and transported to me. I don't feel good about being that reliant on industrial food production nor do I feel that it is ethical to transport food over such great distances to satisfy my personal preference the damage that inflicts on the planet is just so unnecessary.
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  3. #13
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    What has always bugged me about the vegan idea that we have no right to eat other animals. We humans became human and not small chimps of some form because we became the best predator out there. We are hunters by nature now, where do they get the idea that somehow eating meat is a right. It is right and natural to do so but a right? Do the wolves think about the rights of the deer? do the whales think of the rights of the krill? No. Or at least we dont believe so.

    Life exists on this planet as an intricate web of predator and prey and always has as long as life existed. Do we now believe we will change that relationship? Such arrogance deserves what it gets, extinction.

    Our society is changing, our environment is changing our health and lively hood is changing all due to the idea that we are separate from nature, that we are not like the rest of nature, that we some how dont belong and should be held apart, above of nature.

    We have people who dont know where their food comes from, dont know what it costs to produce or where it was produced yet we have the arrogance to think we can do it better than nature?


    You can be vegan if you want, it is not sustainable without intensive global shipping of food, it is not sustainable for your health or for nature without the expenditure of huge amounts of fossil fuels and pollution and it is not spiritually sustainable if you count the costs of all losses to our nature and the world.

    Grow your own foods, till your own soils, eat only what you grow where you live and see how vegan you can be.

    Or buy your veggies from south america in the off season and your fruits from half way across the country, eat your breads from cheap factory farmed oil based agriculture that destroys the soil and ruins waterways and tell me how it is more right to be vegan and live cruelty free...

    /rant
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmbear View Post
    What has always bugged me about the vegan idea that we have no right to eat other animals. We humans became human and not small chimps of some form because we became the best predator out there. We are hunters by nature now, where do they get the idea that somehow eating meat is a right. It is right and natural to do so but a right? Do the wolves think about the rights of the deer? do the whales think of the rights of the krill? No. Or at least we dont believe so.

    Life exists on this planet as an intricate web of predator and prey and always has as long as life existed. Do we now believe we will change that relationship? Such arrogance deserves what it gets, extinction.

    Our society is changing, our environment is changing our health and lively hood is changing all due to the idea that we are separate from nature, that we are not like the rest of nature, that we some how dont belong and should be held apart, above of nature.

    We have people who dont know where their food comes from, dont know what it costs to produce or where it was produced yet we have the arrogance to think we can do it better than nature?


    You can be vegan if you want, it is not sustainable without intensive global shipping of food, it is not sustainable for your health or for nature without the expenditure of huge amounts of fossil fuels and pollution and it is not spiritually sustainable if you count the costs of all losses to our nature and the world.

    Grow your own foods, till your own soils, eat only what you grow where you live and see how vegan you can be.

    Or buy your veggies from south america in the off season and your fruits from half way across the country, eat your breads from cheap factory farmed oil based agriculture that destroys the soil and ruins waterways and tell me how it is more right to be vegan and live cruelty free...

    /rant
    I bolded some stuff, but also just wanted to say....

    BOOM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warmbear View Post
    We humans became human and not small chimps of some form because we became the best predator out there.
    I posted this elsewhere recently, but it bears repeating: Eating meat is what caused our brains to evolve to a point where we became intelligent enough to question whether or not we should eat meat.

    Also ... can I just propose that we not be overly confrontational here? The OP came here to gather information, not to preach to us. If we all get defensive and gang up, we're just going to scare them off, and that wouldn't do anyone any good.
    (not saying we ARE being overly confrontational, necessarily, but I'm just sensing a gradual shift in tone and wanted to say something before it was too late--could be my imagination, tho =P)
    Last edited by Cyborcat; 07-16-2013 at 11:18 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    Libby I understand your sentiment about not wanting to kill animals, but I have to question your use of the word "pleasure" I do not eat animals for my pleasure, it is for survival. No living thing can escape the cycle of life or it's biology, we eat and are eaten; it's a fantasy to think you can escape that reality. You can chose to eat ethically raised meats, or if that feels wrong eat eggs that are raised by hens w/o roosters (no chance that the egg will become a chick) or eat oysters (they have no central nervous system).

    To me it is also about relationships; eating veggies and meat that we raise ourselves (pigs & chickens) or from farmers we know versus relying on corporations to produce my food. It would be extremely difficult if not impossible for me to be a vegan and get my food locally let alone grow it myself, I would have to rely on food that is grown and processed far away and transported to me. I don't feel good about being that reliant on industrial food production nor do I feel that it is ethical to transport food over such great distances to satisfy my personal preference the damage that inflicts on the planet is just so unnecessary.
    Thanks for your reply - and it all makes sense. I guess maybe part of my issue is that since I've been eating vegan for a while now, I have it in my head that to eat meat is more for pleasure than for sustenance. But I am staying open to possibly changing my stance on that; never factory farmed again, though. I can't be behind that, no matter how else my views change. If and when I do ever start to eat animal products again, I'll have to search for a reliable local source of pasture-fed, etc. or it just won't work out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyborcat View Post
    Also ... can I just propose that we not be overly confrontational here? The OP came here to gather information, not to preach to us. If we all get defensive and gang up, we're just going to scare them off, and that wouldn't do anyone any good.
    (not saying we ARE being overly confrontational, necessarily, but I'm just sensing a gradual shift in tone and wanted to say something before it was too late--could be my imagination, tho =P)
    Hi and thanks, Cyborcat. And you are correct, I didn't come here to preach to anyone, not even a little bit. I am 100% here to gather info and to try and wrap my brain around possibly changing my lifestyle and ideals, which is not easy for me. I haven't felt like I've been too badly ganged up on yet, so no worries.

    I do appreciate everyone's input so far and encourage more!

  7. #17
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    Another great book to read IMO is The Omnivore's Dilemma. It will definitely make you want to stick to meat from animals treated nicely and humanely slaughtered, but it does (again, IMO) make eating meat justifiable and would probably help you come to terms with it, if that's what you want to do. One thing the book points out that I found interesting would that animals like chickens and cows would likely be extinct if there wasn't a demand for them (they're too domesticated now to live in the wild).
    "Humans do have a knack of choosing precisely those things that are worst for them" -
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  8. #18
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    Thanks, erin_noel, it's on my to-read list!

  9. #19
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    I actually want to know where vegans think they get the right to murder innocent plants all day and feel no guilt whatsoever. Trees are alive, they send out stress signals, and can even call on animals to help them from impending diseases. How is it okay to take their children and eat them raw, like a murderous heathen? Where is the guiltless-ness? Just wondering.


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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    I actually want to know where vegans think they get the right to murder innocent plants all day and feel no guilt whatsoever. Trees are alive, they send out stress signals, and can even call on animals to help them from impending diseases. How is it okay to take their children and eat them raw, like a murderous heathen? Where is the guiltless-ness? Just wondering.
    Hi! Not sure if you are totally serious here, being heavy handed on the sarcasm or what, but I will gladly share my $.02.

    I do understand that trees and plants are alive. I believe that all living things are connected. My reasoning behind feeling worse about eating an animal than a plant comes from an animal having more qualities of a "living" being than a plant does (scientifically proven to feel pain, emotions, ability to learn, etc.) - in my eyes, anyway. In a perfect world, nothing would be harmed for food, but the way I have felt about it is that I have to eat something, so in my view it has been more acceptable to eat plants and foods "without faces". I have never considered myself to be a "murderous heathen" of the plant world....will have to give that more consideration.

    BUT I do appreciate your reply.

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