Thank you! And I was kind of like you were - not feeling very well at all, but denying it could be my diet because I thought for sure it was THE way. I am also mad at myself for possibly (probably?) contributing to my health problems I'm having now. My doctor says she doesn't think any of this is because of that, but I dunno. Seems suspiciously like it could be to me!
Originally Posted by Annieh
Yeah, I don't see how it's enough to deal with my deficiency either! But it's like an act of congress to actually get to TALK to her, so I just don't know what to do. Obviously the D2 prescription was enough, but this D3 thing is just perplexing. Not sure what she is thinking. My husband said I should just take one D3 a day (5,000 IU). I just get weird about stuff like that and want to do as I'm told. *shuffle*
Originally Posted by namelesswonder
Yeah, that does seem to make sense to me as well.
Originally Posted by Owen
Yup, and they eat all those faux meats and cheeses. Made with wheat, soy, tapioca and cornstarch. Blech!
Originally Posted by Owen
Having been a raw vegan made paleo/primal sooo easy! I had already been talking with paleo people and helping them with their recipes and desserts and such. As raw, grains are already out of the diet. Raw cacao, coconut oil, nut flours, seeds, whole fresh foods; these are already standard in the diet. There's a surprising amount of overlap between the two, just that paleo is actually properly rounded and healthful, while raw vegan is an extreme veganism and cuts out far too much, and is generally touted to be high simple carb based. Very few advocate a fat based raw diet (which I kept going to even as I fought "evil fats", because my body knew what it needed) but even on a high fat raw diet, the omega 6's are really high, and its still high carb because of the nuts. And you are missing a *ton* of necessary nutrients. So there are elements of raw vegan that get it right, like fresh whole food, no grains, learning to use alternate food supplies to make "normal" foods (coconut flour is awesome). It really stretches the brain on how to make foods you like. So its terrific on an education level. Paleo/primal however, actually takes it to the practical level. Raw vegan is like a sectional of a proper diet, and cannot be sustained healthfully for a prolonged period. Good ideas, extremely poor execution.
D2 does not metabolize the same way as D3. Our bodies synthesize D3, which makes it the one we need. We also have to have cholesterol in us to make D3 from sunlight, and our bodies don't produce enough so a vegan diet is an issue here. D2 is another form of D, but its just not the same. We can't use it the same way. I'd suggest, also, getting a supplement that is D3 with K2. D deficiency is usually coupled with K2 problems, especially as you can only get K1 from a plant based diet.
Originally Posted by LibbyLou
I noticed earlier you spoke about the horrors of killing animals I agree. But it was my ethics too that brought me here. Go find real farms, that produce real meat and eggs. It costs more for real food, but these animals were not tortured like CAFO animals and we should be supporting the best we can. If you can find a good pasture farm, go in on a cow or pig or whatever, with a friend or two. Or family. That way you can split the cost of high value, non tortured, non CAFO (and in some places, non slaughterhouse, but in the USA the laws forcing slaughterhouses on farmers is heavily enforced so far as I know, which isn't the farmers fault), proper healthful animal based food.... And you are doing what's right for you, best by the animal, and supporting farmers, not corporations
Last edited by Shield_Maiden; 09-01-2013 at 03:41 PM.
Hi there LibbyLou.
Ex-vegetarian here. PB was not what changed my mind about my vegetarian ways. Being hungry did. I remember it was Thanksgiving and I was putting the leftovers away. Of course I had eaten plenty of food that day, potatoes, peas, corn, pie, all my normal Thanksgiving foods but as I was wrapping up the turkey carcass I had this huge craving to grab a turkey leg and start chowing. Turkey wasn't even "food" to me, it didn't even smell like food. It had been over 20 years since I had eaten meat!!
That was when I new something I was doing nutrition-wise wasn't cutting it. (As it turned out I was pregnant and anemic at the time so my body was REALLY trying to tell me something. Three pregnancies beforehand were all super healthy with no vegetarian related issues so I am not saying you cannot have a healthy vegetarian pregnancy). I was just really and truly hungry and the way I was eating wasn't working for me. I now believe that none of need to eat the same way for a lifetime, I think our body has different needs at different times. If you are not feeling good then your diet may need to be tweaked.
I feel better eating lots more protein than I got on a vegetarian diet, even one that included eggs, dairy and fish. The biggest issue I have now is consistently getting all the vegetables I need, that is really hard to do day in day out. At least for me it's hard and I am a professional vegetable gardener! I also tend to over do it with cheese sometimes but I find that is almost always when I am out of balance and I have started craving something salty and full of fat. Bacon would probably be a better choice or maybe nuts...
Good luck with whatever path you choose. The ethical points of others shouldn't really be of issue to you. If you are educated about the sources of your food and it sounds like you are then you should know what you are comfortable supporting. Listen to your body and don't be afraid to try something different. What worked for me 10 years ago does not work now, even 5 years ago things were different. Looking towards the future I am sure I will have to adjust things along the way. I don't rule out a vegan summer being in my future, living off peaches for a week or two sounds delicious to me! Throw in a watermelon and I could be in heaven. I am pretty sure though that as the seasons began to change I would be wanting a pot roast with lots of root vegetables and a nice hunk of beef. But that is me.
Last edited by blissfull; 09-01-2013 at 06:03 PM.
Thanks so much for your D & K info. I keep reading about needing the K2 along with the D3 (which I have decided to just take every day), so I'm going to get that. I already have the D3, so too late to get a combo. Another thing that I have discovered myself is that I believe I'm also beginning to be (or already??) iron deficient. Not because of my actual iron level, but my ferritin. My doctor hasn't said a word about it, but I've researched and coupled with my levels and symptoms, I think I need an iron supplement as well. I'm afraid to do it without talking to her first, but for the love, I can't seem to talk to her! So frustrating. But I'm also very frustrated with feeling like crud.
Originally Posted by Shield_Maiden
We are going to visit this guy's farm soon: Gaining Ground: A Story of Farmers' Markets, Local Food, and Saving the Family Farm: Forrest Pritchard, Joel Salatin: 9780762787258: Amazon.com: Books. From what I have read, it's just what I am looking for.
Thank you! And thank you for sharing your story as well.
Originally Posted by blissfull
Another ex-vegan here. I was a committed McDougall whole foods, high-carb vegan for 3 years and at first did well, losing 86 lbs the first year. I drank deeply of the McDougall koolaid following my success, crediting veganism and never stopping to think that just cutting out processed foods and unneeded calories and fats accounted for most of my loss. I also really, really wanted to be vegan for "ethical" reasons, and had previously been vegetarian off and on for much of my life.
But earlier this year I ran into trouble in the form of constant unrelenting hunger and weight gain that would not stop, although I had kept off most of my loss up til then without much effort. I also started looking pretty bad, with deep puffy circles under my eyes. I began checking my blood sugars and discovered I was on a roller-coaster of ups and downs, with the ups far too high. I was well down the road to diabetes, doubtless partly or completely due to my high starch intake--brown rice, yams, and the like, which form the mainstay of the McDougall diet, along with plentiful non-starchy veg (protein is de-emphasized, and all fats are frowned on, even nuts).
It is carbs which raise blood sugar, a fact that as I understand it, is largely dismissed as irrelevant under the high-starch diet doctrine. However I do not wish to denigrate that WOE entirely--it did a lot of good for me: I learned a great deal about nutrition, and lost a lot of weight and improved my health greatly on it. But due to carb and blood sugar issues, it clearly was not going to work long-term for this one lab rat (me).
Shocked and with the beginnings of disillusionment, I tried desperately to find non-starchy vegan foods other than green veg, but found that frankenfoods and soy seemed to be the main options for protein. Fast forward to the present, beginning a couple of months ago: I have now evolved to 100% grass-fed meat from a small local ranch where animals are humanely raised; local fish from a nearby fish market, or sometimes bought straight from the boat that caught it; and at least during the growing season, I buy wonderful fresh green veg cheaply from a local farm. A few pastured eggs here and there. Essentially no starch.
I am doing Intermittent Fasting of 23/1, one meal a day, and let me tell you, that one meal is more delicious and satisfying than the whole 3 years of McDougall meals! I am sorry, but it is. I basically eat "meat and greens"--romaine or collards with a piece of grass-fed beef, or wild-caught salmon, with berries for dessert. And I am losing my regained weight, and sleeping deeply. And oh yes--my blood sugars are low and steady, and blood pressure never better. Hunger for the first time in my life is tolerable and not much of an issue--a miracle in itself.
So I thank the OP for having the courage to start this valuable thread, and to the others who contributed. Glad we all made it here to MDA! Cheers--
Last edited by bilbo2; 09-04-2013 at 09:11 AM.