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Thread: Martial Arts/Self-Defense DIY Sources/Advice? page 2

  1. #11
    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    In all seriousness I agree to the utmost degree that practicality is key, as well is sparring an absolute must. Though, in my honest opinion sparring has it's drawbacks/limitations as well in many ways; mainly not being able to apply much pressure to the most vital target points on the body. If one does not acknowledge/respect this they don't acknowledge/respect when one has "right-away", as such they would continue turning it into a more sport related practice, as to where one could have elimanated them as a threat. thus one would literallyhave to really hurt their training partner or completly shut down the nervouse system. In order to "prove a point". meh!
    This argument is sort of like the argument that domesticated cattle aren't truly paleo. In a strict sense, you're right, but it's by far the closest thing we have access to.

    Your video, by great contrast, is the equivalent of Kraft Macaroni & "cheese" in a box.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Okay, this is probably a stupid question, but is there a difference between sparring and practicing with a partner? That's what we do in hap ki do, but it is only 1x a week.
    Technique drilling is crucial. You really do have to nail the techniques before you can utilize them for real. So its not really one or the other. I use to practice takedown drills on the something like this Grappling Dummy: Training Equipment | eBay. But once you have drilled it thousands of times you have use these techniques in a situation where someone is attempting to stop you. Then you learn how to counter, and counter counters, and so on. The techniques get melded and you come out with your very own "style" even if you and 100 different people learn the same techniques you can still end up with 100 different applications and styles.

    Anyhow yes. Sparring is a what you might call a match. A fight with gloves or rules to make sure nobody gets seriously injured, as its still practice. You can create all kinds of situations from wich the "fight" commences. Like "person A has person B in a standing headlock...." GO and you both commence doing your darnest with all the techniques you have learned to win from there. So you utilize all your headlock escape moves while they use all their takedown and choke work just for instance. Thats a bit different than a drill where the opposite person is just a body and does not resist or hinder you in any way.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-16-2013 at 05:52 PM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    RichMahogany- I'm not sure if it's me not understanding you, or you not understanding me. maybe both?
    I'm guessing the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    I'm not argueing that sparing isn't the closest thing. Just stating theirs "flaws" one should be mindful of. Also when one spars theirs generally a mutually agreement. Both participants come prepared and are not caught off guard, like might happen elswhere. Thus the "fight-or-flight" aspect is often blunted. I just think theirs more one can do then just spar, though more time spent sparring the better.
    You ever step in a cage with a guy who's dead set on knocking you out or breaking your arm? I guarantee the "fight or flight" response happens.

    Enlighten me as to what works better than live training/sparring for preparing a person for a real fight. A dude playing patty-cake with a telephone pole?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    I'm not so sure I understand you Kraft & cheese line. I would appreciate it if you tried to phrase it differently for the sake maybe I can come to a better understanding.
    It was an analogy. Like on the SAT. Your video:a real fight what Kraft Mac & cheese:a true primal diet, whereas live training/sparring:a true primal diet what grass-fed beef:a true primal diet. Someone can maybe help more here, but I find this pretty clear...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    Most when they think of wing-chun they think of what bruce-lee had to say about it. It being to structured and so on. Most all that I have sparred with that have a "free" attitude with in "all-goes" were crap. Misinterpreted it, lost focus on what matters most; gets the job done most effectivly/effeciently/simply. just been my experience as of yet...
    I don't know much about Bruce Lee, certainly nothing about his feelings about Wing Chun. How does fancy dancing and tappy toe touching a log "most effectively/efficiently/simply" relate to actually defending oneself in an actual confrontation?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    I'm not argueing that sparing isn't the closest thing. Just stating theirs "flaws" one should be mindful of. Also when one spars theirs generally a mutually agreement. Both participants come prepared and are not caught off guard, like might happen elswhere. Thus the "fight-or-flight" aspect is often blunted. I just think theirs more one can do then just spar, though more time spent sparring the better
    I don't like being a grammar Nazi, but... It's "there's", as in "there is". "Theirs" means belonging to them.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    I don't like being a grammar Nazi, but... It's "there's", as in "there is". "Theirs" means belonging to them.
    Translation: your homophone-fu is weak.

  6. #16
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    Very few people know the difference between their, they're, there, and thurr.

    Sent via A-10 Warthog

  7. #17
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    Bruce Lee was a street fighter. He and other kids would go to the rooftops and have all out brawls. No rules. Daddy put him in Wing Chun I believe to help keep him out of trouble. Can't remember why he got out of it but he did get the idea to add from all fighting styles.

    He believed that real life fighting follows no set patterns and is very chaotic so his art would take ANYTHING from all of the martial arts and use them.

    he was invited to a martial arts tournament, watched for a while, saw the katas (pre-arranged moves) and was asked what he thought. He basically said this stuff will get them killed on the streets. Lee knew most trained fighters, especially martial artists, were conditioned to follow patterns whereas the way he put Jeet Kune Do together, it was designed for real life no pattern following, chaotic fight.

    Lee was a street fighter who picked up or adopted what he thought would work in a real life or death situation on the street. Lee was able to change his fighting to whatever the situation called for. Crazy attacks, martial artists attacking as they have been trained to do, whatever.

    Jeet Kune Do worked pretty good for the son of Bruce Lee, Brandon Lee, in a REAL LIFE situation. It is quoted below.

    Speaking of Brandon Lee it says..."He's confident, intense and direct, and a lot of people find that intimidating."

    Including, no doubt, the burglar who broke into Lee's pad two years ago, confronting him with a kitchen knife. "You want to put that thing down," intoned the lean (6', 160-lb.), mean Lee, who, at age 2, was taught the martial art of Jeet Kune Do by his father. The intruder lunged anyway, slashing Lee on his left arm but receiving, in turn, a separated shoulder and a broken arm."

    Son of Bruce Breaks Loose : People.com

    Seems like it works pretty good in real life if one trains properly.

  8. #18
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    Hola!


    Believe it or not I own a Mixed Martial Arts studio in the Northwest called The Source Academy.

    We do several disciplines of fitness and MMA:

    Western Boxing
    Gracie Jiu Jitsu
    Muay Thai (kickboxing)
    Okinawan Kenpo Karate
    Filipino Martial Arts (escrima & Kali)
    Jeet Kune Do
    Tai Chi/ Qi Gong

    We have authorized instructors who are directly certified by the founders in most of those. For instance our Jiu Jitsu is taught by a man named Anibal Lobo who moved to the United States with Rickson Gracie. I personally have about 25 years practicing and teaching martial arts...

    And I just told you all that to hopefully lend credibility to my answer. There's a lot of great ideas in this thread:

    1. Sparring - is necessary for development and to "prove" self defense
    2. Stick with something solid, 2 days a week is great, if you really want to absorb what you're doing 3 days is optimal. All the students I have who train 3/4 days per week are leagues better than my weekend warriors and people only coming twice. Hitting the bag in your garage does not count as one of the days, but it helps! You'd probably see a gain if you did 2 days of class and a garage day
    3. Do something APPLICABLE, I'm not knocking your art or choice of Hapkido and I'll get more into this in a seoncd:


    Back to sparring: This ties into everything, you don't need to go to a place where everyone is going to try and kill you or break your limbs. In fact I would steer clear of any place promoting a mentality like that. I have worked with UFC fighters and several other coaches of prominence, NONE of them have promoted a rough violent attitude while training. Watch some pros sparring on Youtube and you'll get the idea. They aren't trying to kill each other they are trying to be TECHNICAL and LEARN. That's the environment you want. IT also has to accomplish a sense of realism in some way shape or form with the OPTION to increase the intensity.

    Be on the lookout for a place where the long term students can easily and handily work over the new recruits with little to no effort. If someone claims to be a black belt of this or that, they should be able to prove it by barely putting energy into their techniques and easily scoring or diffusing an attack. Any amazing Gracie Jiu Jitsu coach will be able to do this, as would a pro Boxer. If the black belts or high level people (sometimes there's no belts) have to get "tough" to beat the new students it usually is a sign of a lack of knowledge

    Which leads me to point 3. Applicable training should provide these results, it should be effective, you should be able to spar with it in a controlled manner, it should deliver self defense, and the people who claim to be highly skilled should be able to perform these moves against resisting beginners with ease. IF the place is really sharp, the beginner can actually have a background in another style, be a wrestler, etc... and the top students should still be able to perform. Never listen to "oh that's not my style" or "it doesn't work in that situation." That can be an answer, but if its a common one, get out of there fast.

    If you are content and you feel satisifed that's great. 90% of authentic training will work in the street for self defense when it's done correctly. There's a simple saying in this field that goes "you have to make it work." There aren't any secrets and the knowledge of something like Muay Thai isn't going to save you unless you practice it, spar it, and develop it on your own under guidance.

    If you look for something like an MMA school, look for a place that has an education with credentials in everything they teach. Don't settle on "it's a mixed progressive style." That's a load of BS! Even if they have fighters, are they winners? And are they qualified in Muay Thai, Wrestling, AND Jiu Jitsu. If they teach MMA and are only educated as a wrestler the other areas usually suffer. In fact at our place no one person can do it all and we have about 10 different coaches on staff.


    Good luck! Martial arts can be a fantastic and rewarding journey, the one thing I hate seeing in the sport is regret after someone has trained at a lackluster place. Just don't waste your time and money and GET what you're paying for and you're well on your way.


    /end excited rant!
    Living the dream - One life at a time!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    Some of the Gracie family has worked with them (karls students). They admt that they were shocked and are intimidated to fight bare-knuckle.
    I doubt that's what they said. Are you familiar with the Gracie Challenge? UFC 1 & 2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    As while Karl admits he would never step his ass into a ring because he would get demolished. Karl sure as hell doesn't knock people out, submit them, break-bones, or bust peoples lips. I assure you your understaning of the human body is limited compared to karls...
    So what is it that he does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    The path we walk doesn't neccesarly get one "there" the fastest, but we stand behind the integrity we persue.
    If that makes you feel better about doing something silly, continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    Besides don't most cage fighting MA pare people up with relitivly similur weight?
    Google "UFC 1." or Royce Gracie vs. Akebono. Or Rickson Gracie vs. David Levicki.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    I weigh 125. From your perspective do you think that will help me in "real life" if theirs some that weight 200 plus? not to mention maybe multiple attackers? just curious....
    More than tippy-tapping a block of wood? Hell to the yes. Is it a guarantee of success? Of course not. But if live training doesn't have the answer, that doesn't justify silly bullshit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    As you can see in a more updated video of karl (below) has been going through with some fasting and such: disolving muscle so he can persue expressing that strength is likely not the best option....
    But he knows so much more than me about the human body...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    The wooden-dummy like saoi before can help build a kinesthetic awareness of the skeletel system. when one strikes the dense wood vibrations go through the body to the floor. with much mindfullness this awareness develops. In order for one to be relaxed and move their body as fast as can be the most fluidly as possible the positioning of the skeletel structure is crucial. without support more effort is "robbed" by the muscles. Also taking away from the minds ability to concentrate. Besides, when a muscle is tensed ones joints are more "locked" to varring degrees; making it much easier to be controled.
    Sorry, this has all the earmarks of pseudoscience. It sounds like the same things people say about tarot cards and chakras and crystals to me. Show me proof, besides more videos of a guy slowly touching a block of wood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    Theres a hell of a lot more to it, but i've had eneogh for now. dont want to waist my time, granted you might not even be interested.
    No offense, but you're not being very persuasive, which isn't helping my level of interest in what you have to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    Karl can stand roughly 10 feet away from most people and stare eye to eye. having them on their ass before they can detect movement. You look and tell yourself you see patty-cake. convincing yourself you see what there is to see will only inhibit what there is to be gained.
    To part 1 of this: Where's that video?
    To part 2: Thanks, Yoda

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    I look up to what he's tought me a lot like mentioned. Regardless if It helps me when a fight. I have no ambition to try to assert my ways, or prove they are better. I just wanted to present a different perspective, for others to decide if it has value to them. Unlike many here, my life is on the other end of the "vortex" I dont go to gyms to try to put my self in positions of resistance to build muscle. Rather, for the last past 8 years I have loaded the big 53's you see on the free way, 3 a night- 5 days a week. Learning about structure and the path of least resistance has improved my life tremendously. Taking strain away giving me time and energy to do things I rather do. At this point I could care less for my self if I ever can whip some ass.
    You learned how to load trucks by doing a patty-cake dance with a wood block? Even if that's true, was that the most efficient way for you to learn to load trucks efficiently?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    Again I don't percieve my way is better. just wanted to share different perspective. I want you/anyone to persue the path they seek. Just dont convice yourself you know- this leeds to blindness. Theres much more then meets the eye, I assure you.
    Is that supposed to be a commentary on my chosen training methodology? I assure you nobody claims to have all the answers, the Gracies themselves included.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kakti View Post
    persue your own integrity!!!!!
    I would argue that those that train against full resistance, eliminating what doesn't work and keeping what's successful is pursuing integrity much more than making specious claims with no evidence and no way to know whether the techniques you're teaching are truly effective.

  10. #20
    tekshow's Avatar
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    lets not turn the thread into martial arguments, let's help out the OP find the right way of training for themselves. If you're happy where you're at and have explored it to the fullest then be satisfied in your pursuit without having to defend it or put others down.
    Living the dream - One life at a time!

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