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Thread: EFAs and their essentiality page 3

  1. #21
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    The B-12 in yeast is added to make vegans less likely to keel over from a deficiency.

    I think you misunderstood Choco. He wasn't saying that naturally occurring PUFAs are bad (although he does go a bit far on the nut phobia at times). His post was about not taking the extracted form in a pill. The Peatarians do go a bit far in demonizing any and all PUFA, IMO. They do the same thing they accuse LC eaters of doing, demonizing a sweet potato in the same category as a twinkie. A piece of fish and some nuts do not belong in the same category as soybean oil.
    I don't blanketly hate PUFA.

    Fish oil =/= fresh, wild fish.
    Nut and seed oils =/= fresh, raw nuts and seeds.

    However, I don't encourage nut consumption because they are extremely high calorie and deliver little nutrition per calorie. They have a higher caloric density than chocolate, making nuts more fattening than a good chocolate bar per weight. They are incredibly easy to overconsume, contain ten times the phytic acid of whole wheat flour and are a very potent allergen. If you are like me and responsible with your nut consumption - I really only eat them in homemade ice cream or homemade chocolates and the very rare salad topping making them maybe a handful a week on average - it's fine. If you're eating them every day, I'd reconsider my goals.

    What I am vehemently against is the use of nut meals for baking "paleo breads/cakes/cookies/etc." If you're going to grind your nuts into a meal/flour and expose them to oven temperatures, now you're highly oxidizing all that PUFA. That is ill-advised, and you're creating super high calorie junk food made of damaged, poor quality fats. Starch-based flours like masa harina, tapioca starch, potato starch and coconut flour are all far safer, far healthier options and have a lower calorie density as well. AND THEY ARE ALL A FRACTION OF THE COST!

    Make no mistake about it, meat, eggs, dairy, fruits and vegetables are pretty much always better than nuts and seeds, but if walnuts and pumpkin seeds are the worst thing in your diet, you're doing a pretty great job.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-17-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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  2. #22
    miata's Avatar
    miata is offline Senior Member
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    People have been consuming cod liver oil for thousands of years. I know there are benefits beyond Omega 3's, but that packaging seems to have worked well.

  3. #23
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miata View Post
    People have been consuming cod liver oil for thousands of years. I know there are benefits beyond Omega 3's, but that packaging seems to have worked well.
    Considering that cod liver oil is a food-like product and not a food, I strongly doubt that. People may have eaten cod sporadically and may have consumed the liver, but to believe it was consumed in any regularity is insanity. Cod liver oil has been shown to promote cancer in dogs. I'll pass, thanks.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhaych View Post
    The term "oxidized" keeps being used as the reason supp. PUFA 3 & 6 oils are bad. But, now I'm not a biochemist or anything, just a student studying but it seems, if I've understood correctly there is another area of research about these oils aside from the pro-inflam eicosanoids from AA and the less-inflam eicosanoids from EPA and they are referred to as isoprostanes and I think isoPs from AA according to this article equals BAD but the isoPs from EPA down regulate the former and equals GOOD. These isoprostanes (F2 from AA and F3 from EPA) are not produced via the cyclooxygenase pathway but from "free radical oxidation" of the substrates. So maybe all this talk about these oils being so susceptible to oxidation is beside the point except in the case if the diet is mainly composed of AA producing foods. Free radical oxidation of EPA may better.

    The above article and also this article from this year might be worth a read, but a little difficult to understand.
    Both are definitely interesting but that last article is from 2006, not this year.

    Anyhow, I do like seeing those two magical words...in vivo . Showing that a fat susceptible to oxidation outside of the body at high heat really does nothing for me. How does it react in a live organism. Kind of like the saturated fat haters would point out that butter is solid at room temp so it MUST just behave the same way in the body clogging up all those pipes!

    Not a statement for or against PUFA or anything. But lets keep things in perspective when we look at the data.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-17-2013 at 12:48 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I don't blanketly hate PUFA.
    Fish oil =/= fresh, wild fish.
    Nut and seed oils =/= fresh, raw nuts and seeds.
    You do realize I was defending you and agreeing with you? Right?

  6. #26
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    You do realize I was defending you and agreeing with you? Right?
    Yes. I was agreeing with you and further explaining my position for danhaych's benefit so he understands it fully.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Yes. I was agreeing with you and further explaining my position for danhaych's benefit so he understands it fully.
    OK. Gotcha. Good. We just have an unfortunate tendency to jump on each other's post's assuming adversarial stances. Sometimes we actually agree on things.

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