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  1. #11
    Sabre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    I think its important to vary your macros to keep you metabolism working properly. I tend to periodize my eating patterns from VLC to LC to moderate carbs and once in awhile a carb fest. But always try to eating food that is pastured, free range, local and organic. I like to go with the seasonal eating and tend to eat more carbs in the summer. Sitting in the back yard catching some rays today, noticed the apples were ripe so ate a couple, then ate a few plums now munching on blackberries. Our peaches and nectarines should be ready in a couple of weeks...Sure is nice living in Sonoma County, California!
    Interesting, that does sound good. One possible objection is that if you stay in VCL for a long time and your body starts to become keto adapted, then changing it to moderate carbs all of a sudden throws the body out of whack making it less metabolically efficient. I don't know enough to agree or disagree with this, but I'd guess mixing it up isn't a problem and is probably beneficial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    Many thanks Dragonfly. I just read your last link (Zooko & Wilcox-O'Hearn)---interesting--and I'll read the other two later tonight. Have you any thoughts on leaky gut? I suspect that's the root cause of my skin problems (minor but persistent and annoying), and there's evidence that sustained low-carb/keto is bad for the gut if you don't do carb-up refeeds every now and then, for example those "perfect health diet" guys have said something about starch being beneficial for healing the gut

    I don't know what my D3 level is. I get as much sun as possible. This article put me off D3 supplementation:

    Why I don’t take vitamin D supplements*/* Getting Stronger
    Re: skin issue. Certainly could be leaky gut. My eczema went away when I went Primal and was100% gluten-free for a few months.

    Re: keto and gut health. Mine has never been better. Here's another viewpoint that posits that our gut bacteria are really out for themselves.
    Hyperlipid: Search results for Fiaf

    Re: D3 supplementation. I've read similar arguments, but the weight of evidence is not supportive of his thesis. See the Vitamin D Council website articles and links. I am happy to discuss this at length, but I hate typing, lol! You can pm me if you want to skype! My own n=1 is that sun exposure was insufficient for MY optimal health. Inflammatory conditions and autoimmune can benefit from therapeutic doses of D3.

    In any case, living in Ireland you are almost definitely D3 deficient, unless you holiday in warmer climes for a couple of months a year. Most of my nutrition clients are UK-based and ALL of them have tested as severely deficient. All of them have reported great health benefits after a few months of supplementation.

  3. #13
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    Liver is your best bet for B vitamins, Vitamin A and K2. There is some tasty pâté available in your neck of the woods!

    Changing things up can be helpful for certain goals, like fat loss, but gut healing and brain healing might benefit from more consistency, IME. Not to discourage you from adding carbs, but gut health can take a couple of years to regain and there is no harm done in staying lc or vlc, if it is working for you.

    Nutrient density is important for gut healing, so liver, other organ meats, cheese, seafood, eggs and bone broth are really key.
    Last edited by Dragonfly; 07-13-2013 at 05:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    Interesting, that does sound good. One possible objection is that if you stay in VCL for a long time and your body starts to become keto adapted, then changing it to moderate carbs all of a sudden throws the body out of whack making it less metabolically efficient. I don't know enough to agree or disagree with this, but I'd guess mixing it up isn't a problem and is probably beneficial.
    It's important to get to the fat adapted state before varying the macros. I was very strict LC Paleo, keeping my carbs between 50 and 100 per day for 6 months - the fat loss sweet spot as described by Mark - until I reached my goal weight. Since then I've focused on building some muscle and keeping body fat low. I find that varying the macros really works for me, however we are all different and one size does not fit all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Liver is your best bet for B vitamins, Vitamin A and K2. There is some tasty pâté available in your neck of the woods!

    Changing things up can be helpful for certain goals, like fat loss, but gut healing and brain healing might benefit from more consistency, IME. Not to discourage you from adding carbs, but gut health can take a couple of years to regain and there is no harm done in staying lc or vlc, if it is working for you.

    Nutrient density is important for gut healing, so liver, other organ meats, cheese, seafood, eggs and bone broth are really key.
    liver is one of the few meats that contains carbs so is worth including in your foods
    When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
    27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
    new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Re: skin issue. Certainly could be leaky gut. My eczema went away when I went Primal and was100% gluten-free for a few months.

    Re: keto and gut health. Mine has never been better. Here's another viewpoint that posits that our gut bacteria are really out for themselves.
    Hyperlipid: Search results for Fiaf

    Re: D3 supplementation. I've read similar arguments, but the weight of evidence is not supportive of his thesis. See the Vitamin D Council website articles and links. I am happy to discuss this at length, but I hate typing, lol! You can pm me if you want to skype! My own n=1 is that sun exposure was insufficient for MY optimal health. Inflammatory conditions and autoimmune can benefit from therapeutic doses of D3.

    In any case, living in Ireland you are almost definitely D3 deficient, unless you holiday in warmer climes for a couple of months a year. Most of my nutrition clients are UK-based and ALL of them have tested as severely deficient. All of them have reported great health benefits after a few months of supplementation.
    Interesting. I might reconsider taking vitamin D. I vaguely remember reading--and warning, this may be completely wrong-- that the beneficial effect of vitamin D is that it reduces the activity of the immune system in some ways, thus lessening the aggressiveness of autoimmune conditions.

    edit: I should add that the link I posted was tweeted by Robb Wolf a few months ago (without commentary), which made me pay more attention to it. I wonder what his current stance on vitamin D is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Liver is your best bet for B vitamins, Vitamin A and K2. There is some tasty pâté available in your neck of the woods!

    Changing things up can be helpful for certain goals, like fat loss, but gut healing and brain healing might benefit from more consistency, IME. Not to discourage you from adding carbs, but gut health can take a couple of years to regain and there is no harm done in staying lc or vlc, if it is working for you.

    Nutrient density is important for gut healing, so liver, other organ meats, cheese, seafood, eggs and bone broth are really key.
    I have a big question, for you or for anyone else:

    Low carb diets have been implicated in high cortisol, e.g:

    "[A low-carb] diet will lead to an elevation of catabolic stress hormones, while [a high-carb diet] has been shown to increase thyroid hormone triiodothyronine (T3), increase testosterone, and decrease cortisol, the anti-hair, pro-misery stress hormone (here, here, here (PDF), & here)." (links in original document)

    Is this the case? Can it be mitigated by carbing up at the weekend?
    Last edited by Sabre; 07-16-2013 at 07:10 AM.

  7. #17
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    Frozen yogurt is your friend. Do homemade if you can.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    I have a big question, for you or for anyone else:
    Low carb diets have been implicated in high cortisol, e.g:

    "[A low-carb] diet will lead to an elevation of catabolic stress hormones, while [a high-carb diet] has been shown to increase thyroid hormone triiodothyronine (T3), increase testosterone, and decrease cortisol, the anti-hair, pro-misery stress hormone (here, here, here (PDF), & here)." (links in original document)

    Is this the case? Can it be mitigated by carbing up at the weekend?
    That is a Danny Roddy (i.e. a sockpuppet for Ray Peat) piece and I wouldn't take it seriously.
    Yes, going low carb is stressful for the primarily sugar burning metabolisms that SAD eaters have. This is why people get "carb flu" when in this transition. Once past that transition,however, there is no evidence that there is any stress involved. Living off of ketones is the most natural thing in the world.
    What is truly stressful long term is continuing with such an inflexible sugar based metabolism that needs to be fed every three hours to stave off hypoglycemia.
    P.S. Danny Roddy makes most of his money off of a book and blog called "Hair like a Fox" which sells snake oil to insecure balding males. He is a joke.

  9. #19
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    I already addressed the cortisol issue in a previous evidence-based post. Did you not see it?
    The Ketogenic Diet for Health: Ketogenic Diets, Cortisol, and Stress: Part I — Gluconeogenesis

    And here's a great evidence-based post about T3 and ketogenic diets:
    http://aworldlymonk.wordpress.com/20...a-false-alarm/

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    What is truly stressful long term is continuing with such an inflexible sugar based metabolism that needs to be fed every three hours to stave off hypoglycemia.
    I don't know enough about cortisol to address that issue, but I just wanted to chime in about this part of your post.

    I eat a macro split of something like 60/25/15 C/P/F and a relatively high-sugar diet (with the sugar coming from tropical fruits, dates, berries, sweet potatoes, and occasional honey and molasses) and only eat 2 meals a day. I definitely don't need to eat every few hours, and I never get "crashes" from healthy, high-carb meals.

    It works for some people. Just sayin'.

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