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Thread: Marks position on Ketosis? Ketogenic vs Paleo. page 5

  1. #41
    pcampo's Avatar
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    Also, of course I copied and pasted that. why would I waste energy writing all that in? I was making a point in putting all that in

  2. #42
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    Some posters do make a habit of posting their opinion as matters of fact. Pointing that out doesn't necessarily mean that you agree, disagree, or have to provide relevant studies to oppose that persons view.

    It's just that some things are accepted as known (physics and math and even that can be scrutinized if your in those upper echelons, which I am NOT), some things we think we know pretty well (biochemical pathways that have been mapped)......most things however are somewhere in the grey area between "very well supported by scientific experimentation" and "not supported by current scientific experimentation".

    Thats actually the definition of why this stuff is even debatable.

  3. #43
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    I agree wholeheartedly with choco's breakdown although he left out an important caveat....

    Carbohydrates are almost always the macro a person is addicted to if they have a food addiction. A great amount of overweight westerners are anecdotally addicted to food. If you go on a diet without addressing a likely carb addiction it is extremely likely your addiction will sabotage your weight loss attempts. This is the reason mark suggests a low carb diet. A month or 2 into your diet after overcoming carb addiction, choco's advice stands uncontestable.


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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
    I'm 362lb down from 410lb on ketosis. Easiest. Weightloss. Ever! ....for me anyways Have been keto since beginning of the year .


    Congrats!!!!!!!! I feel the same way!!!

    Ketosis is the best!!!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcampo View Post
    Well Jake, Im sorry if I have offended you in any way.
    Not sure where you got the impression that I'm offended. I'm just typing responses on an internet forum.

    But what I asked were serious questions. Like I stated in the beginning, im new to this, so I think asking Choco if he can please give something else other than anecdote, is a legitimate question, or else I would believe anyone who comes in with a cool idea. By the way, since you mention "blanket statement", what Choco said was a "blanket statement", that low fat diet is better than high fat diet.
    It's seems that you're attacking a strawman, as Choco never said that a low fat diet was better than a low carb diet. He was just addressing the issues with low carb diets that the "experts" seem to overlook in spouting their claims.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  6. #46
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    There is no one way of eating that's right for everyone.

    There is no one way of eating that's right for you for every single stage of your life.

    Maybe as a whole, across all 6 billion of us, eating low fat, or low carb evens out, but on an individual basis one will be better for a person, for where that person currently is in life.

    I think the confusion comes about because some people are arguing trees and some are arguing forests.
    We shouldn't apply a blanket rule to individuals, and we shouldn't use our individual experience to create blanket rules for others.

    If someone is asking about VLC, give them information they may find helpful on their n=1 journey. If someone is asking about an all potato diet, do the same, give them information they may find helpful.

    So long as someone is on their journey to wellbeing, it doesn't matter what road they travel by, and we should all just be cheering everyone onwards regardless.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
    Hmm... this seems a bit like Broscience. I think plateaus are a part of all weight loss regardless of diet being followed. No weight loss is a straight line

    Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
    A diet that minimizes stress and best supports an ideal hormone profile (and therefore maximize your body's metabolism) will be the diet that best supports weight loss. This would be a diet that provides "enough" healthy fats and healthy carbohydrates, specifically healthy carbohydrate since it is your body's preferred fuel, has a thermic effect and raises your body temp. Of the fat you do consume, saturated would be my first choice with as little polyunsaturated fat as you can sustain.

    The human metabolism isn't a straight line - some days you're very sedentary and others you're very active. Neither is the human appetite. So it stands to reason weight loss would look like a line graph of a landline-based telecom stock over the past decade
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcampo View Post
    ChocoTaco, Have you read "The Art and Science of Low Carb living"? Mostly what you have posted seems conjecture and anecdotes, so its hard for me to just take your word for it.
    Absolutely not. Why would I? If anyone has success following a low carbohydrate diet, it's solely because it's helped them make better food choices resulting in a spontaneous reduction in calories. If you have lost weight eating this way, it's because you're eating less, even if you think you aren't. A 1,200 calorie pile of steak and vegetables is huge compared to a 1,200 calorie pile of chicken alfredo or doughnuts.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    You're not supposed to believe anyone...

    ...Choco never said anyone should trust him. He's saying to get rid of the dogma.
    This is basically what I'm getting at. You have to find out what works for you. Calories are all that matter in terms of weight. But different macro spreads can influence how that weight is distributed. A diet full of fried flour and low in protein at 2,000 calories a day should maintain about the same weight as a 2,000 calorie diet full of steak, eggs and potatoes, but I think we can all agree the latter 2,000 calories will provide a healthier body with likely a better fat-to-muscle ratio. I believe carbohydrate, while as effective as fat for "gaining weight," is less "fattening" - less likely to become stored fat. However, if you find yourself more likely to overeat carbohydrate than fat...well...it may not work as well for you. Similarly, there are A LOT of people on this site eating way too much fat and it's crushing their metabolism. So many people would do better increasing their fruit and protein consumption and not doing crazy things like drinking coffees with 1/4 stick of butter in them or slathering everything in some refined oil.

    Don't eat based on some guy's recommendations on a book he sold you and is profiting from. Eat real food - I don't care if it's meat, fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, roots, tubers, whatever. Just experiment. Try high carb/low fat. Try low carb/high fat. Try moderate carb/moderate fat. I do better on carbs than fats, my meals look nothing like what most on here eat. I'd much rather eat shredded top round and potatoes, a pretty low fat/high carb meal, than a big fatty ribeye or bacon-on-everything. You may find out you're the same...or not...but you won't know until you try it all!
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    I agree wholeheartedly with choco's breakdown although he left out an important caveat....

    Carbohydrates are almost always the macro a person is addicted to if they have a food addiction. A great amount of overweight westerners are anecdotally addicted to food. If you go on a diet without addressing a likely carb addiction it is extremely likely your addiction will sabotage your weight loss attempts. This is the reason mark suggests a low carb diet. A month or 2 into your diet after overcoming carb addiction, choco's advice stands uncontestable.


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    I strongly, vehemently disagree.

    Who is addicted to carbohydrate? Are you addicted to cookies? Brownies? Ice cream? Doughnuts? Potato chips?

    They are as high if not higher in fat than they are in carbohydrate. What people are addicted to are highly palatable, processed foods which are almost always high in fat and carbohydrate. Oils and flours in unison signal your brain to overeat. Take a spoon too a bag of sugar and see how far you get. Take a knife to a stick of butter and see how far you get. Probably not far. Now let that butter come to room temperature, mix in sugar and whip it into icing. I bet you'll eat the whole damn bowl if you let yourself. But you'd blame the sugar as addictive, not the butter? I actually bet you'll get further into the stick of butter by itself than the bag of sugar!

    Carbohydrate addiction is a myth. I've never heard of anyone binging on boiled white potatoes or eating a straight bag of flour with a spoon. I bet you're more likely to binge on NY strip steak.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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