Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 119

Thread: Marks position on Ketosis? Ketogenic vs Paleo. page 11

  1. #101
    dkJames's Avatar
    dkJames is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    477
    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Going low carb is a great way to ensure they never become insulin sensitive again since you have to consume carbohydrate to promote insulin sensitivity.
    I guess you can stuff yourself with dairy proteins which are a great trigger of insulin ... insulin is not only for glucose so when we talk about insulin sensitivity, we have to be more nuanced.

  2. #102
    eKatherine's Avatar
    eKatherine is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    5,426
    Quote Originally Posted by CarbDodger View Post
    there is some evidence that a prolonged very restricted VLC ketogenic diet can provoke an impaired glucose tolerance and physiological insulin resistance...
    Not counting mass posting by trolls on this site, how does the body of literature supporting this compare with that supporting ketosis? One or two bloggers with fanatical followers, or thousands of papers and books?

  3. #103
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    How does PUFA's and vitamin deficiencies effect the ability of your body to manufacture its own glucose exactly?


    Sent from my iPhone
    Your body prefers to be supplied with glucose through diet. It does not want to manufacture its own. Consuming large amounts of PUFA and sustaining vitamin and mineral deficiencies impairs our primary metabolic functions. Making our own glucose requires large amounts of cortisol to break down amino acids. What you are proposing is for your body to limp along on a backup metabolism while having chronically elevated cortisol due to a constant catabolic state. Simply avoiding glucose avoids the main problem of metabolic syndrome, but now you're opening up entire new cans of worms. The real solution is to lower PUFA, become vitamin and mineral replete and slowly cycle in glucose until you can tolerate it again. It may take months or years of trial and error to repair the decades of damage you've done to your body, but it is the real solution.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  4. #104
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by dkJames View Post
    I guess you can stuff yourself with dairy proteins which are a great trigger of insulin ... insulin is not only for glucose so when we talk about insulin sensitivity, we have to be more nuanced.
    Dairy protein (and meat protein, too) triggers the release of large amounts of insulin. Often more than carbohydrate. However, neither of these significantly raise the amount of sugar in the bloodstream. Metabolic syndrome isn't a problem with your body making insulin. It is a problem where you are unable to adequately manage the amount of sugar in your bloodstream.

    I've never understood the whole "pancreas" argument. Low carb diets are just as insulinogenic as high carb diets.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  5. #105
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Not counting mass posting by trolls on this site, how does the body of literature supporting this compare with that supporting ketosis? One or two bloggers with fanatical followers, or thousands of papers and books?
    Low carbohydrate dieting increases your body's ability to oxidize fat. Since glucose is in short supply, energy to support life has to go somewhere. With this comes decreased insulin sensitivity. Similarly, a high carbohydrate/low fat diet increases your body's ability to oxidize glucose since FFA's are in lower supply. With this comes increased insulin sensitivity.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  6. #106
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Yeah, it's funny how all of the Taubes followers (and Taubes himself in GCBC) seem to forget that protein is highly insulinogenic.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  7. #107
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,757
    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Not counting mass posting by trolls on this site, how does the body of literature supporting this compare with that supporting ketosis? One or two bloggers with fanatical followers, or thousands of papers and books?
    The physiological insulin resistance is at the level of the muscles. Its a response to save glucose for the very few areas that actually need glucose (some parts of brain). Nothing abnormal about it. Its actually quite transient. And if you had been dealing with metabolic syndrome prior to low carbing your likely going to find that once your metabolism has been given a chance to heal (vial low carb) when you do reintroduce carbohydrate you have a net improved insulin sensitivity.

    Seems to me people, either knowingly or not, are misrepresenting how all of this actually works. Once a low carber does carb load for a couple days you will be able to check insulin sensitivity via the normal routs, HbA1C (well this doesn't require a carb load to show improvement) and fasting glucose levels. This is vastly different than the pathological insulin resistance seen in metabolic syndrome which obviously will not self correct by simply increasing carb load!

    Here is part 1 of about 9 posts by Peter at Hyperlipid:

    Hyperlipid: Physiological insulin resistance (1)

    I really suggest that if someone wants to know about this stuff you read it there. Its far to frequently misrepresented on this forum.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-10-2013 at 12:32 PM.

  8. #108
    dkJames's Avatar
    dkJames is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    477
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Dairy protein (and meat protein, too) triggers the release of large amounts of insulin. Often more than carbohydrate. However, neither of these significantly raise the amount of sugar in the bloodstream.
    I highlighted something that is counter-intuitive in my view. If insulin is present, it would actually DECREASE the amount of sugar in your bloodstream. The reason why it is does not happen when you eat only dairy proteins is because GLUCAGON is secreted at the same time to avoid hypoglycemia. This is not the case when there is excess sugar in your bloodstream, it needs to go to your cells and glucagon would prevent that from happening, which we certainly don't want
    Last edited by dkJames; 07-10-2013 at 10:52 AM.

  9. #109
    Black Timber's Avatar
    Black Timber is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Yeah, it's funny how all of the Taubes followers (and Taubes himself in GCBC) seem to forget that protein is highly insulinogenic.
    A little off topic. Why doesn't a type I diabetic need to take insulin when consuming protein?
    Last edited by Black Timber; 07-10-2013 at 11:24 AM.
    Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

  10. #110
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Quote Originally Posted by dkJames View Post
    I highlighted something that is counter-intuitive in my view. If insulin is present, it would actually DECREASE the amount of sugar in your bloodstream. The reason why it is does not happen when you eat only dairy proteins is because GLUCAGON is secreted at the same time to avoid hypoglycemia. This is not the case when there is excess sugar in your bloodstream, it needs to go to your cells and glucagon would prevent that from happening, which we certainly don't want
    Yes, glucagon is released to counter insulin. However, the balance is not exactly perfect. Eating large quantities of protein alone without fat or carbohydrate does cause a dip in blood sugar and can promote hypoglycemia. PSMF's are phenomonal for burning fat, but they make you feel absolutely miserable due to this.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •