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Thread: How bad is wheat, really? page

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    Alfi56's Avatar
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    How bad is wheat, really?

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    I totally agree that carbs should come from whole sources, especially fruits, veggies, and tubers. Some seem to say NO wheat at all, and that makes sense to gluten-intolerant people. I get that wheat can be inflammatory, but to be honest I'm not gluten-intolerant and I dont' feel any noticeable bad effects or lethargy whenever I eat something wheat-based. I also read Mark's article on how grains are actually seeds and have phytic acid etc so you should avoid them; by that logic, why are other seeds like pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds paleo-approved? I actually don;t like potatoes or rice, and that leaves me limited with other starchy carb options. In moderation, I would like to enjoy a nice artisan-baked sourdough loaf from the farmers market; can that be part of my 20%?

    Please no rude responses; it's an honest question of how bad wheat really is.

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    Knifegill's Avatar
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    Dude, yes. Some for-real fermented sourdough, and only on occasion?! And you don't get any visible symptoms anyway? I'd roll those dice.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    Tremendous worms of a swarthy nature pursue me across the sandy blank sky. I stop to think. What the devil AM I up to?!

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    Alfi56's Avatar
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    Also, the paleo diet supposedly controls insulin levels, but aren't potatoes and white rice actually higher glycemic index than some whole grains? I don't really get that....

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    The insulin theory (existing in a vacuum apart from other disease states) is no longer viewed as strictly accurate. Clearly for sedentary people with organs that aren't functioning properly, those huge 300g carby snacks are too much. But once every few days, especially after a big workout? The jury is out. I am still a fan of keeping carbs pretty low for lazy, sick people, like under 100 for maintenance. But for people properly nourished, in good shape, with functional organs and room for glycogen storage? Can't see carbs as an enemy there. Grains might be junk, but whole food sources of starch or glucose and other sugars? Bring it on if you have no weight to lose or are just having a really physically demanding day. It really depends on your health, your goals, and your tastes. There's no one macronutrient ratio for everyone. And most of us even cycle around from time to time. Try different macronutrient ratios of nutrient-dense whole foods (made of cells, not dust) until you find out what works for you. I found the holy grail when I bumped protein up to what I thought was crazy amounts, but is actually only a little over the recommended amount upon further investigation. Keeping protein and fats high, and carbs somewhat low - while including awesome foods - has served me well so far! Lost 50 pounds, labs look pretty awesome, etc.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    Tremendous worms of a swarthy nature pursue me across the sandy blank sky. I stop to think. What the devil AM I up to?!

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

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    peril's Avatar
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    I didn't think I had any issues with wheat until I had a heart attack. Dropped wheat and so many health improvements. Try it. What do you have to lose?
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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    The problem with wheat is that most likely, you will eat the "franken" wheat strain developed in the 60's and 70's and that has taken over the market. 99% of the wheat today come from that genetic monster which cannot be compared to the original einkorn or the older strains (spelt, emmer, kamut, etc). This franken wheat is the high yield semi-dwarf strain that was supposed to eliminate famine worldwide. The guy who managed to come up with this strain even got huge recognition for this back then (there's an old Time magazine with the guy's picture on the cover). Since this time (late 60's I believe), it got much much worse. All components in this wheat strain can be considered toxic.

    If you want to include carby "bird food" in your daily diet, use quinoa, buckwheat, millet, oat (oat is gluten free if you have it manufactured in wheat free plants so make sure you get "gluten free" oat). These grains or pseudo-grains are not without problems (some are considered goitrogenic, quinoa has saponin which you should wash off before cooking) but are way better than modern wheat. Use buckwheat for pancakes for example French Brittany is famous for those, and for good reasons, especially together with a nice apple cider

    Just for the sake of mentioning it, I use buckwheat flour in my banana-egg based pancakes.
    Last edited by dkJames; 07-04-2013 at 02:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfi56 View Post
    ? I actually don;t like potatoes or rice, and that leaves me limited with other starchy carb options.
    Wheat has something in it that stimulates a positive feeling, or so I'm told. I guess its the wheat plants way of manipulating us, sneaky little bugger... Most starch is pretty tastelss in and of itself.

    Is Wheat Addictive? | Mark's Daily Apple


    Quote Originally Posted by peril View Post
    I didn't think I had any issues with wheat until I had a heart attack. Dropped wheat and so many health improvements. Try it. What do you have to lose?
    I also think inflammation can express differently in different people. I don't get digestive problems, and wouldn't have ever suspected wheat to be a problem. Yet cutting right back on it has seen my skin get a lot clearer. Maybe my artery walls too?

    Having said all that, because I don't get acute or immediate problems like an upset stomach, I will eat wheat if I'm served it at someone elses place, and occasionally if I really want a donor kebab or whatever. Or more likely a nice cold microbrew ale.... So I can't say don't ever touch another slice of toast!

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    No one has to be 100%, 80%, or any percent. If most of the people in this country stopped eating bad oils and believing that they should get 60% of their calories from carbs, stopped eating processed shit food, and stopped eating grains as their primary food, everyone would get healthier.

    For most people, the problem isn't the occasional servings of bread/wheat. It's that we've all become sick from eating cereal for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch, and pasta or McD for supper every day. And even if we try to eat in a healthful manner, the most available foods are CAFO animals and animal products, produce sprayed with such poisonous crap that the workers have to wear hazmat gear, and produce that is shipped so many miles to get to us that it loses a substantial amount of its nutrients. I forgot to mention potentially dangerous stuff like BPAs in the packaging of all this stuff.

    IOW, we've turned this huge country which could grow/produce the most amazing amounts of amazing foods into a cesspool. And after 50 years of doing so, we're reaping the "benefits." So, do your own research and decide if wheat is poison, or just not something you want in your daily food intake, or anything in between.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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    I haven't really studied the inflammation aspect of wheat, but I avoid it because of its high carb content. I do consume it once in a while though and I haven't noticed any ill effects of eating it, nor have I seen any benefit of removing it from my diet. I may have to be more strict in keeping it out of my diet for a full month as some recommend if I want to see if it really benefits me though.

    As for its toxic components, phytates and lectins, I would like to see some data that show what those levels really are. Everything seems to have lectins and everything seems to be toxic at some level. I learned a few weeks ago that green leafy plants are high in oxalates. so what should we do, avoid eating them? Well, I changed my mind about experimenting with green smoothies, but green leafy plants are still a part of my diet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike View Post
    I learned a few weeks ago that green leafy plants are high in oxalates. so what should we do, avoid eating them?
    Actually, I sort of avoid them without really thinking about i. I am fine with a green salad once in a while to be honest, and unlike wheat, I don't grow addicted to them. So I am OK with eating them as a side item, albeit not every day at all. But my wife seems to find some virtue in them and will try to include those. Since I cook most of the time, I don't really think about leafy greens very often ... IF I were alone, I would not have them. It's funny because I had way more of those when I started my primal lifestyle but with time, animal products, fruits and starches are what I ended up with. I do use herbs for flavoring though.

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