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Thread: How bad is wheat, really? page 6

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    I am in constant need of magnesium between my RX and exercise depletion; my nightly spasms can be unbearable despite supplementation! Magnesium citrate probably only aggravates my already compromised digestion.
    I would switch to magnesium malate. Compared to citrate it's said to be better absorbed.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graycat View Post
    I would switch to magnesium malate. Compared to citrate it's said to be better absorbed.
    Never heard of malate! I was going to switch to glycinate after Ron_Swanson's recent magnesium thread.
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    I never thought I had a problem with wheat/gluten until I went Paleo.... now I know that as soon as I eat something that contains wheat not only do I get stomach cramps and gut issues, but it seems to make all my allergies worse (I am allergic to casein and some animals and pollen, not just from grass but from most trees and flowers as well).

    If I don't eat anything that contains wheat I don't seen to suffer any where near as bad from the allergies...

    I suspect that it was a leaky gut from the gluten in my diet that caused the dairy allergy in the first place as I didn't develop it until my mid 30's. All of a sudden, for no apparent reason I started itching and coming out in hives... The doctor advised me to try giving up dairy and gluten and I started with the dairy because it was easier... the hives went. But if I came into contact with even the tinyest bit of milk (such as my kids kissing me goodnight after drinking a glass of milk) I would react. Then I went Paleo... and I have found that I can tolerate very small amounts of goat/sheep milk without reacting and I don't react when the kids kiss me goodnight either...

    so for me wheat is pretty bad.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salixisme View Post
    I never thought I had a problem with wheat/gluten until I went Paleo.... now I know that as soon as I eat something that contains wheat not only do I get stomach cramps and gut issues, but it seems to make all my allergies worse (I am allergic to casein and some animals and pollen, not just from grass but from most trees and flowers as well).

    If I don't eat anything that contains wheat I don't seen to suffer any where near as bad from the allergies...

    I suspect that it was a leaky gut from the gluten in my diet that caused the dairy allergy in the first place as I didn't develop it until my mid 30's. All of a sudden, for no apparent reason I started itching and coming out in hives... The doctor advised me to try giving up dairy and gluten and I started with the dairy because it was easier... the hives went. But if I came into contact with even the tinyest bit of milk (such as my kids kissing me goodnight after drinking a glass of milk) I would react. Then I went Paleo... and I have found that I can tolerate very small amounts of goat/sheep milk without reacting and I don't react when the kids kiss me goodnight either...

    so for me wheat is pretty bad.
    Wheat and aged cheeses are high in histamines, and hives are a typical symptom of histamine intolerance. Perhaps you have a histamine intolerance and wheat/dairy were major contributors? The Food List - Histamine Intolerance

    More about HI: http://chriskresser.com/headaches-hi...e-be-the-cause

    The hives part of your symptoms are what gives me pause as opposed to typical digestive intolerance.
    Last edited by j3nn; 07-04-2013 at 04:50 PM.
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    Thanks for the info J3nn. I had no idea about the histamine content.

    But I react to all dairy, not just aged cheese. And I do get both gut and breathing issues with dairy as well (not anaphalaxis as there is no swelling of tissues, it is more like asthma).

    But the histamine content does explain why I came out in hives a couple of months ago when A (Eldest daughter) made herself a cheese sandwich and neglected to clean the chopping board down. I came home from work, prepared dinner on the same chopping board and promptly came out in hives... and I scratched myself raw as well!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salixisme View Post
    Thanks for the info J3nn. I had no idea about the histamine content.

    But I react to all dairy, not just aged cheese. And I do get both gut and breathing issues with dairy as well (not anaphalaxis as there is no swelling of tissues, it is more like asthma).

    But the histamine content does explain why I came out in hives a couple of months ago when A (Eldest daughter) made herself a cheese sandwich and neglected to clean the chopping board down. I came home from work, prepared dinner on the same chopping board and promptly came out in hives... and I scratched myself raw as well!
    There's so many possibilities, and it seems like with everything, the poison is in the dosage. Obviously some things are going to be worse than others, but I think cornering the biggest offenders is a huge feat. I just learned about histamine intolerance recently when I was investigating my reactions to certain foods and I was blown away by how much sense it makes and the correlation to so many mysterious symptoms from seemingly random foods. Digestive issues do accompany it as well, as histamine is broken down in the gut. So when you have a lack of the enzyme, foods high in histamine are bad news. I may need to do some n=1 myself to see if this theory holds any merit for me.
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    Well the histamine thing would also account for why I used to react so badly to mosquito bites as well... since going paleo I get a small itchy lump when I get bitten, but I don't end up with my entire arm swelling like used to happen.

    I think I may need to do some research into histamine as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Yes, I am aware of the differing degrees of intolerance and allergy, which is exactly my point. I don't think wheat is a fantastic food in and of itself, but I do think its dangers are overblown in this community and doesnt really deserve the super toxicity status it has been given. It simply doesn't have the same effect or consequence for everyone in the same way, especially when you take the quality and processing into consideration. Blue Zone centenarians by and large consume wheat and other grains, evidence that they can be innocuous and possibly benficial to many. Saying everyone is intolerant is like saying everyone is a murderer, some just don't do it. Celiac is estimated at less than 1% of the population; I think it's a far stretch to extrapolate severe life-altering intolerance to reach 50% or more of all humans without any data to back that up. Context and dosage, again. Alcohol is toxic and yet it's still given the moderation pass if you tolerate it and I think the side effects can be just as bad if not worse in certain contexts.

    Steak is a lot of processing because you first have to hunt the animal, kill it, and then butcher it before cooking it. In the wild it woud take just as much effort as processing a seed for consumption, unless you just eat it raw and aren't interested in increasing the bioavailability of its nutrients, much like a plant.
    Nobody is arguing against individual planning or methods so its rediculous to keep stating "whatever works for you" or " person x does fine on it".

    So you like to alternate between paradigms when it fits you. Thats alright. So lets hunt, kill, and make some pemmican. Sounds good. How processed is that? Can it be done by hand for mass quantity and calorie compared to grasses? I'll answer that.... yes meat is much easier to extract vs grasses pre agriculture. Cause pre agriculture you would have to find then pick and process. The finding would not be that of an acres worth of field all nice and set up for ya BTW.

    If you would like to present the data you have on "Blue Zone" centurians in regards to wheat consumption and in what form their intake is please do. I don't have that data myself and when I read the book he fairly glossed over it IMO.

    If there was a hierarchy of arch villains of neolithic disease then this one is in the top 1-3 spots. Sorry but there is more data and more proof that gluten and wheat are detrimental to health than there is data on PUFA at this time. The difference is the data on wheat has an absolute and irrefutable diagnostic values....while PUFA overdose is still theoretical in every way. Not saying one or the other necessarily. Just pointing it out.

    If you have issue with PUFA intake which has only been proven detrimental in the same sort of trials that fructose has been proven a detriment (that is trials with amounts far above normal consumption) then you haven't a leg to stand on.

    If your screaming N = 1!!! At the top of your lungs thats fine. I revert to the point that even in celiac cases the most prevalent form of the disease rarely causes GI distress. So when do you know? When that other tissue thats being attacked breaks down. There is an interval during the destruction that you wont know this is occurring... symptoms come on late. So anyhow is there any reason to eat a substance that may or may not do this to you or up to 50% (low as 10% by opinion) of the population when you can choose a grain or tuber or fruit that does this to far LESS than 1% of the population instead? Its called RISK/REWARD. For me the risk is far too high.

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    I am allergic to sulfa drugs and penicillin. I wonder if there's any correlation there. I would break out in full-body hives, and the last episode over 15 years ago resulted in fainting and an ER visit. Definitely an area of interest for me as I put all of my puzzle pieces together.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    If you would like to present the data you have on "Blue Zone" centurians in regards to wheat consumption and in what form their intake is please do. I don't have that data myself and when I read the book he fairly glossed over it IMO.
    Why do you feel that every healthy and long-lived person who eats wheat must undergo scientific analysis to reveal why they have that advantage? I think there are many variables, but diet is a major factor and I think it's simplistic to say that one food is always the reason for good or poor health. But obviously there is a formula or genetic predisposition in which wheat grains do not have negative impacts on every person. Many are fortunate enough to naturally gravitate towards that, others need to figure it out. I think that good health and longevity on a mass scale are solid indicators of something that is not universally lethal. There is no evidence that shows that the majority of humans are gluten-intolerant. Suspicion is not causation anymore than correlation is. Perhaps science will prove otherwise one day, but I think we're only scratching the surface on this topic and doing a lot of speculating.

    If there was a hierarchy of arch villains of neolithic disease then this one is in the top 1-3 spots. Sorry but there is more data and more proof that gluten and wheat are detrimental to health than there is data on PUFA at this time. The difference is the data on wheat has an absolute and irrefutable diagnostic values....while PUFA overdose is still theoretical in every way. Not saying one or the other necessarily. Just pointing it out.

    If you have issue with PUFA intake which has only been proven detrimental in the same sort of trials that fructose has been proven a detriment (that is trials with amounts far above normal consumption) then you haven't a leg to stand on.
    I think Americans and many other nations do have an abnormally high consumption of PUFAs. It's in everything. They're not eating avocados and salmon, they're eating salad dressings and potatoes fried in soybean oil and loaded with PUFAs; rancid shelled nuts and nut butters that sit in warehouses and store shelves after being exposed to high temps since being plucked from the vine. While I don't think high PUFA consumption is a good thing, I also think there's a huge difference between an avocado and the things I just mentioned. It's completely unnatural to couple soybean oil with HFCS. Nowhere in nature does fructose meet rancid PUFA oils. Autopsy studies show that the majority of fats found in clogged arteries are polyunsaturated fats.

    So anyhow is there any reason to eat a substance that may or may not do this to you or up to 50% (low as 10% by opinion) of the population when you can choose a grain or tuber or fruit that does this to far LESS than 1% of the population instead? Its called RISK/REWARD. For me the risk is far too high.
    I really wouldn't suggest anyone make wheat or other gluten grains staples in their diet as there are far better choices, but I also wouldn't be an alarmist and tell healthy people who tolerate it to not eat it in moderation. I have no way of knowing other than their own accounts. You said you eat it, so would you prefer I told you that you are probably killing yourself because you are gluten intolerant and don't know it? That's ridiculous.
    Last edited by j3nn; 07-04-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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