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Thread: lower volume (2x5) for strength gains (because 5x5 makes me eat too much!) page

  1. #1
    archaeologyboy's Avatar
    archaeologyboy is offline Junior Member
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    lower volume (2x5) for strength gains (because 5x5 makes me eat too much!)

    Primal Fuel
    Hi,

    I've had good results (gaining mass and strength) from stronglifts 5x5 (modified since I bought Starting Strength - I've added chins and am practicing power cleans) but now my squat is up to around 100kg (at 78kg BW) my appetite is out of control - every evening I have to stuff myself stupid, and if I don't cram myself to bursting I don't sleep well. I'm fed up both of the eating, and of the failed nights sleep and subsequent crappy workdays. (I upped carbs -white rice - which has helped but not solved the problem)

    So I've decided to drop volume, experimentally this week I've started 2x5 for all exercises (except deadlift which will stay at 1x5). So it's basically stronglifts with slight additions (I seem to be slowly migrating to SS):

    Workout A:
    Squat 2x5
    Bench 2x5
    Pendley Rows 2x5
    + power cleans with the empty bar (Ive had back pain in the past and want to take it slowly with the explosive movement)

    Workout B:
    Squat 2x5
    Overhead Press 2x5
    Deadlift 1x5
    Chins 2 sets to failure

    Training mon/wed/fri

    My aim with this is to continue gaining strength rather than bulking up - I'm pretty skinny by nature so a bit of mass gain is by no means unwelcome, but I don't want to eat like a monster anymore!

    My current aim is 2xBW in deadlift and 1xBW in bench with squat somewhere in between - when I reach that I'm thinking I will drop down to LHT twice a week and add intervals/sprints once or twice a week.

    Does anyone have any comments? Or can anyone recommend an established program that will fit my needs (to get stronger without eating like a maniac)

    thanks!
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  2. #2
    Longevity's Avatar
    Longevity is offline Member
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    I'm interested in hearing your results, good luck!
    Do you vary your exercises? Staying in the same movement, but just changing the exercise?

    Happy lifting!

  3. #3
    archaeologyboy's Avatar
    archaeologyboy is offline Junior Member
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    yep, pretty much changing nothing but the number of sets, thanks for your interest!
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  4. #4
    Ghshl's Avatar
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    I think it can work for you. Personally I'd go with 3 sets of 5, and only do a further decrease if I still felt it necesarry.

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    Greenbeast's Avatar
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    I do one set of 6-10 reps (to failure), that is enough to prompt a reaction by the body to build muscle

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    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    Ghashul - I mulled 3x5, and dropped squats down to 3x5 last week (while leaving everything else at 5x5) - the result: eating like a beast I could sleep, but away for the weekend bbq'ing with friends I didnt get the same amount of food in, and an hour after going to bed I woke up and couldnt get back to sleep, eventually I got up, prepared myself another enormous plate of food, stuffed it all in, then walked along the beach in the moonlight for an hour (very pleasant, but so is sleeping) and after that I could sleep.

    So I've decided to err on the side of caution for a couple of weeks, but yes, if this works I might try 3x5 and see what happens - if I get the same food/sleep problem I can always go back.

    Greenbeast - as a senior member I'm guessing you're not a beginner (I gather beginners make gains no matter what) so one set might be something I could try. Also my understanding is that 3~5 reps is good for strength, 6~10 is more for mass, but at only one set maybe that's not the case. Is your program based on anything I could read up on, or is it more based on your own experience?

    thanks for the replies!
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  7. #7
    primalrob's Avatar
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    dropping to 2x5 should help (i like 3x5 better), but you may also want to consider dropping a lifting day. i wouldn't be surprised if you saw better strength gains with 2 days a week. it will give you more recovery time (which you need since your lifts are good and heavy) cut down the amount you need to eat, and give you more time for sprinting or moving slowly.

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    +1 on the 3x5. I was 5x5ing it for a while in order to get back in to strength training, but recently went to a 3x5 and i'm enjoying it a lot. RichMahogany can probably chime in on this as well

  9. #9
    Greenbeast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologyboy View Post
    Ghashul - I mulled 3x5, and dropped squats down to 3x5 last week (while leaving everything else at 5x5) - the result: eating like a beast I could sleep, but away for the weekend bbq'ing with friends I didnt get the same amount of food in, and an hour after going to bed I woke up and couldnt get back to sleep, eventually I got up, prepared myself another enormous plate of food, stuffed it all in, then walked along the beach in the moonlight for an hour (very pleasant, but so is sleeping) and after that I could sleep.

    So I've decided to err on the side of caution for a couple of weeks, but yes, if this works I might try 3x5 and see what happens - if I get the same food/sleep problem I can always go back.

    Greenbeast - as a senior member I'm guessing you're not a beginner (I gather beginners make gains no matter what) so one set might be something I could try. Also my understanding is that 3~5 reps is good for strength, 6~10 is more for mass, but at only one set maybe that's not the case. Is your program based on anything I could read up on, or is it more based on your own experience?

    thanks for the replies!

    I have weight trained this way, on and off, for 10 years. It's the only way i've ever trained.
    I don't think there is anything that distinguishes between what different rep ranges do.

    All that needs to happen is the body is pushed to failure, it adapts to prepare for next time by building muscle. No point doing many more reps than necessary, waste of energy/time

    If you have bulk without strength, you are storing water, simple as.
    If you are big, you should be strong, if you are strong you should be big. It's physics.
    Last edited by Greenbeast; 07-03-2013 at 07:14 AM.

  10. #10
    RichMahogany's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    +1 on the 3x5. I was 5x5ing it for a while in order to get back in to strength training, but recently went to a 3x5 and i'm enjoying it a lot. RichMahogany can probably chime in on this as well
    <chime> 2 x 5 is probably not sufficient volume to maximize your gainz. 5 x 5 is arguably too much. I agree with 3 x 5 </chime>

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