Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 41

Thread: Ketosis page 3

  1. #21
    Gorbag's Avatar
    Gorbag is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    3,579
    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    I might also mention that Stephen D. Phinney, M.D., PhD and Jeff Volek, PhD, RD, authors of "The Art & Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" work with and have studied world class athletes who remain in a state of ketosis indefinitely and experience performance enhancement.
    Competing without carbs or training low carbs is a very different beast. Whom are those "world class athletes" and what sport are they competing in?

  2. #22
    janie's Avatar
    janie is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Competing without carbs or training low carbs is a very different beast. Whom are those "world class athletes" and what sport are they competing in?
    I believe that they work primarily with keto-adapted endurance athletes, especially cyclists. Their book also has a section with observations from high-performance coaches, sports nutritionists, university athletic coaches, etc. re: their positive use of keto-adaption in various sports. I'm sure you could find more online. BTW, these 2 researchers were also co-authors of the latest Atkins book and their research has focused on keto-adaption and its health benefits.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

  3. #23
    janie's Avatar
    janie is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    641
    Are you an M.D., Gorbag?
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

  4. #24
    Gorbag's Avatar
    Gorbag is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    3,579
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    I believe that they work primarily with keto-adapted endurance athletes, especially cyclists. Their book also has a section with observations from high-performance coaches, sports nutritionists, university athletic coaches, etc. re: their positive use of keto-adaption in various sports. I'm sure you could find more online. BTW, these 2 researchers were also co-authors of the latest Atkins book and their research has focused on keto-adaption and its health benefits.
    I can definitely see a value of getting adapted to performing in ketosis, and that it can give you an edge in endurance sports, since those events often ending up in lack of enough carbs anyway. But I don't think that any serious endurance athlete will compete without first filling up on hundreds of hundreds of grams of carbs the days before an important event and also get plenty of "refill" of fast acting carbs under the competition. Endurance athletes super-compensate carbs to max out their glycogen levels for a good reason, to avoid "the bonk!" - which is a very serious threat to every competing endurance athlete...

    And no, I am not a MD either, why?

  5. #25
    janie's Avatar
    janie is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    641
    Apparently that is not the experience of the athletes they have studied. And the conclusion of these researchers is that while a high carb diet may arguably be best for short burst high intensity exercise, they see equal or better performance by ultra-endurance athletes at various levels of carb restriction.

    I asked about the MD b/c I've wondered about your background. You always speak so authoritatively as though the "answer" is carved in stone. I'm not sure it is; perhaps it is evolving and there may be some value in new research and what these authors call a "tectonic shift in sports nutrition thinking".
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

  6. #26
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Apparently that is not the experience of the athletes they have studied. And the conclusion of these researchers is that while a high carb diet may arguably be best for short burst high intensity exercise, they see equal or better performance by ultra-endurance athletes at various levels of carb restriction.
    It would be great if you could link to the studies you are referring to.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  7. #27
    Annlee's Avatar
    Annlee is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    344
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    I can definitely see a value of getting adapted to performing in ketosis, and that it can give you an edge in endurance sports, since those events often ending up in lack of enough carbs anyway. But I don't think that any serious endurance athlete will compete without first filling up on hundreds of hundreds of grams of carbs the days before an important event and also get plenty of "refill" of fast acting carbs under the competition. Endurance athletes super-compensate carbs to max out their glycogen levels for a good reason, to avoid "the bonk!" - which is a very serious threat to every competing endurance athlete...

    And no, I am not a MD either, why?
    Western States 100 – Low Carber Wins Ultramarathon – Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek Study | Me and My Diabetes

    Very few carbs, running in ketosis, and not only won, but knocked 21 minutes off the course record ... in one of the most grueling 100-milers.

    See also - Steve Phinney – Low-Carb preserves Glycogen better than High Carb | Me and My Diabetes

  8. #28
    janie's Avatar
    janie is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    641
    Thanks, Annlee. Sorry Jake -- I don't have links to post (ok, I'm technologically challenged, LOL) but the book I mentioned has pages of references.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

  9. #29
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Quote Originally Posted by Annlee View Post
    Western States 100 – Low Carber Wins Ultramarathon – Steve Phinney and Jeff Volek Study | Me and My Diabetes

    Very few carbs, running in ketosis, and not only won, but knocked 21 minutes off the course record ... in one of the most grueling 100-milers.

    See also - Steve Phinney – Low-Carb preserves Glycogen better than High Carb | Me and My Diabetes
    It's clear that low carb works well for some, but in most, I think that performance will suffer. Also, they don't provide any details about the diet of the ultramarathon winner other than that it was low carb, so I don't think we can make too many conclusions here.

    Also, an interesting overview of the debate between Alan Aragon and Jeff Volek on the topic of low carb performance: 2013 NSCA Personal Trainers Conference: Looking Back at my Debate with Dr. Jeff Volek | Alan Aragon's Blog
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  10. #30
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Thanks, Annlee. Sorry Jake -- I don't have links to post (ok, I'm technologically challenged, LOL) but the book I mentioned has pages of references.
    Darn. It would be nice to see the research, but I'm not going to buy the book
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •