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Thread: Messed up with long term VLCing = Hello Matt Stone! page 8

  1. #71
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    Hi, my name is XYZ and I'm a male/female of 20-30 something years old. In 2012, I weight 7000 pounds. I decided to go VLC. I figured if 50 grams of carbs were good, then 0 grams would be better. I haven't had any food from the plant kingdom for over a year. I don't feel so good. I found a website that enlightened me to the fact that I need many many plant foods. So, for the last fifteen minutes, I have been eating copious amounts of fruit, candy, cakes, and my favorite - spoonsful of sugar. I feel awesome! The last time I felt this good, I was putting very good quality coke up my nose.

    You paleo and primal folks are assholes.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

  2. #72
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    You are not. The paradigm of paleo philosophy is in questioning and self-experimentation. VLC is not optimal for most people. One of paradoxes I see in Primal per se, is that it is ideal lifestyle for those with low level of activity. Making it work with a dose of physical activity requires in most cases relaxation of protocols in regards to carbs, rather than tightening them. But it seems that people trying to lose fat try to both up their activity and reduce carbs simultaneously. I think that is often counterproductive.

    And, unfortunately, lean, muscular body comes at a price of the well-being or productivity for a lot of people. Mark has a lifestyle of an idle gentleman living in idyllic climate conditions & spending a lot of time out of doors. Most of us are work bees who do not love in CA. This is one thing that paleo/primal need be more upfront about.

    Travelling doesn't really mean that you need to eat crap. If you open up to rice and lentils, you can eat pretty perfect and whole anywhere.
    Last edited by Leida; 07-01-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post

    You paleo and primal folks are assholes.
    If that were my hypothesis, you sure are doing a great job proving it

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    You are not. The paradigm of paleo philosophy is in questioning and self-experimentation. VLC is not optimal for most people. One of paradoxes I see in Primal per se, is that it is ideal lifestyle for those with low level of activity. Making it work with a dose of physical activity requires in most cases relaxation of protocols in regards to carbs, rather than tightening them. But it seems that people trying to lose fat try to both up their activity and reduce carbs simultaneously. I think that is often counterproductive.

    And, unfortunately, lean, muscular body comes at a price of the well-being or productivity for a lot of people. Mark has a lifestyle of an idle gentleman living in idyllic climate conditions & spending a lot of time out of doors. Most of us are work bees who do not love in CA. This is one thing that paleo/primal need be more upfront about.

    Travelling doesn't really mean that you need to eat crap. If you open up to rice and lentils, you can eat pretty perfect and whole anywhere.
    You're right about being greedy with fat loss progress. If you've been overweight for a long time - it can be very exciting to lose fat and you can very easily get carried away with it.

    I was under the impression that rice and lentils were not paleo. I've seen recently that rice is becoming more accepted. That being said, maybe I shouldn't reach out for validation from some health authority for every meal I eat.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    Hi, my name is XYZ and I'm a male/female of 20-30 something years old. In 2012, I weight 7000 pounds. I decided to go VLC. I figured if 50 grams of carbs were good, then 0 grams would be better. I haven't had any food from the plant kingdom for over a year. I don't feel so good. I found a website that enlightened me to the fact that I need many many plant foods. So, for the last fifteen minutes, I have been eating copious amounts of fruit, candy, cakes, and my favorite - spoonsful of sugar. I feel awesome! The last time I felt this good, I was putting very good quality coke up my nose.

    You paleo and primal folks are assholes.
    Proof that the internet can make you say some strange things.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by pabs View Post
    If that were my hypothesis, you sure are doing a great job proving it
    The word moderation gets a bad rap in this community. Say "moderation in all things," and folks come out of the woodwork asking, "What about heroin?" "What about wheat?"

    I would put forth that the average person doesn't know jackshit about heroin in moderation. It's just another drug. It's a very addictive drug, but for those who do it maybe twice a year, it doesn't ruin their lives. Same with wheat - does anyone really believe that a person who eats maybe three pizzas a year is going to die substantially earlier than someone who ate none?

    It seems like there are a proliferation of posts from black/white people who think that because they took something to an unhealthy extreme, the rest of us will also. I eat low carb. There are days (Egad!), maybe two days per month on average when I don't. It works for me. I don't think it would work for everyone. Because I'm not arrogant enough to think that just because something works for me, it is the *hallelujah* answer for everyone.

    Little boys are the worst on the arrogant scale. Once they find the true white light of stupidity, they think that everyone should be on board with their new found knowledge.

    You're no different.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by joaniel View Post
    hi, my name is xyz and i'm a male/female of 20-30 something years old. In 2012, i weight 7000 pounds. I decided to go vlc. I figured if 50 grams of carbs were good, then 0 grams would be better. I haven't had any food from the plant kingdom for over a year. I don't feel so good. I found a website that enlightened me to the fact that i need many many plant foods. So, for the last fifteen minutes, i have been eating copious amounts of fruit, candy, cakes, and my favorite - spoonsful of sugar. I feel awesome! The last time i felt this good, i was putting very good quality coke up my nose.

    You paleo and primal folks are assholes.
    lmfao

    Oh, come on.... thats funny right there..... Whats most funny about it is in context of this thread this is almost EXACTLY what the high carb guru's did! "If low carbs makes me feel this great then NO carb will make me immortal! There can be only one!!!! Bwaaaaa"........Then they crash, come back to earth and write a blog/book/whatever about the dangers of low carb and sell it to other NO carb refugees.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-01-2013 at 02:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redcard View Post
    Thanks for the link. The paleo variant I'm following / intending to follow is almost exactly PHD
    Same.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
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  8. #78
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    Hi Guys,

    thanks tonnes for the advice and links. Jake, thanks for the suggesting Lyle McDonald's flexible dieting book. I'm half way through reading it and finding it quite useful already in changing my tendency to take things to the extreme and inevitably fail.

    Here's what I've found:

    Long term VLC causes imbalance in thyroid hormones in some folks. This is a common problem among VLCers. For the first 6-8 months, they are on a high because of the increased production of stress hormones (Catecholamines) produced in response to caloric restriction. Eventually, their adrenal glands and thyroid tire out and deregulate. This causes symptoms like hair loss, cold extremities, depression etc. I'll list links that better explain this stuff at the end of this post.

    I'm lucky in that I only experienced the above mentioned symptoms for a few weeks before deciding to do something something about it. If I had let the situation escalate, it could have easily led me to direr circumstances.

    My metabolism was screwed from the long term caloric deficit. to recover, I ate whatever i felt like for two weeks, which included pizza, soda, ice cream, tacos etc etc etc (it helped that I was in Texas at the time )

    I now feel much better. My hair loss has retarded significantly, mood is stable and I'm less cold. My temperature still drops sometimes but a meal fixes it (carbs and sugar specially). I have put on 8 pounds in the last two weeks in fat and muscle. no biggie, i feel healthy.

    My plan from here on is to reduce junk food intake and substitute with whole food. I will still be eating a significant amount of carbs until I'm convinced that my metabolism has had the chance to recover.

    Once I feel recovered, I will get back to low carb (less than 150g) to lose the fat I've put on. This time, however, I will add weekly carb refeed days during which I will stuff my face with starchy but healthy carbs. I will also eat non paleo meals occasionally but intentionally, so that my body is used to eating junk, if i ever find the need or want to do so.


    Link section:


    VLC and hypothyroidism

    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/categor...ypothyroidism/

    http://180degreehealth.com/2010/06/t...mine-honeymoon


    Carb cycling/refeeding

    Matin Berkhan's LeanGains approach:

    http://doubleyourgains.com/musclebui...oach_Final.pdf

    Lyle McDonald's Flexible Dieting guide:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-g...exible-dieting



    Recovery for those who are suffering from similar symptoms brought about by chronic malnutrition:


    Matt Stone's Diet Recovery

    http://www.amazon.com/Diet-Recovery-.../dp/B00BEJOSFY
    Last edited by pabs; 07-03-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by pabs View Post
    Hi Guys,

    thanks tonnes for the advice and links. Jake, thanks for the suggesting Lyle McDonald's flexible dieting book. I'm half way through reading it and finding it quite useful already in changing my tendency to take things to the extreme and inevitably fail.

    Here's what I've found:

    Long term VLC causes imbalance in thyroid hormones in some folks. This is a common problem among VLCers. For the first 6-8 months, they are on a high because of the increased production of stress hormones (Catecholamines) produced in response to caloric restriction. Eventually, their adrenal glands and thyroid tire out and deregulate. This causes symptoms like hair loss, cold extremities, depression etc. I'll list links that better explain this stuff at the end of this post.

    I'm lucky in that I only experienced the above mentioned symptoms for a few weeksbefore deciding to do somethi
    Oh, what a load of horse shit.

    Fact:

    Somewhere between this load of dung you just dropped and the people that state ketosis is the one and only healthy way to live is the actual truth of the matter. I'm just not as persistent as some posters in regard to posting and re-posting the science that proves this..... go do more research is all I'm gonna say from now on.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-03-2013 at 06:51 PM.

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