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Thread: Cardio vs Strength - Burning Fat page 2

  1. #11
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Well I posted a systematic review above. There is this that follows up on that review:

    Increasing Weight Loss Attenuates the Preferential Loss of Visceral versus Subcutaneous Fat

    " Their principle finding was that there is no compelling evidence that any investigated weight loss intervention selectively targets the reduction of visceral adipose tissue (VAT) to a greater extent than another. This conclusion agrees with our recent findings that changes of VAT mass are allometrically related to changes of total body fat mass (FM) during weight loss, regardless of gender or weight loss intervention (The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control2). However, we were intrigued by another of their conclusions: that VAT was lost preferentially versus subcutaneous adipose tissue (SAT) with modest weight loss, but the effect was attenuated with greater weight loss (The following popper user interface control may not be accessible. Tab to the next button to revert the control to an accessible version.Destroy user interface control1). Here we show that our simple allometric model also predicts this result."

  2. #12
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfreaksho View Post
    There may be correlations, though. Aren't there correlations between visceral fat and metabolic syndrome, which is linked to a bad diet? People who are following the recommendations for diet may also be following the recommendations for exercise, which is mostly just running/cardio. People who lift and sprint have an entirely different way of fueling their bodies, which is less likely to cause visceral fat.

    I might be making this up, so I'd love to hear someone shoot this down.
    Yes, you are entirely right....there is indeed a CORRELATION between metabolic syndrome and visceral fat. In the same sense that there is correlation between shark attacks and being in the ocean rather than on your couch.

    Metabolic syndrome is caused by prolonged high insulin. What this means is that you are in storage mode a lot of the time...targeting either of the drivers of fat gain, that being insulin-resistance and calorie surplus, WITH EXERCISE of any kind, is wishful thinking. Whatever small differences between modalities will be dwarfed by diet measures.

    Cardio vs strength for fat loss?
    Neither.

  3. #13
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    I disagree. Exercise is vital in the overall plan. Not saying you can take up jogging and resistance training without addressing diet and see a full recovery, but exercise even if it is in the temporary sense does improve insulin sensitivity. As does many other lifestyle factors that should be addressed of course.

    Does Exercise Without Weight Loss Improve Insulin Sensitivity?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10683091

  4. #14
    Vick's Avatar
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    Back to the original question. I think we have heard enough to suggest that the answer given was in total ignorance or to promote a type of exercise that will provide the trainer a living.

    That being said, if you eat an Oriole Cookie it would take 54 trips up a flight of stairs to burn the calories off. That doesn't sound too efficient therefore it is better not to eat the cookie.

    What exercise does is set and reset metabolic switches to steer the calories to the muscle cells or to fat cells for storage. Walking and high intensity such as resistance training and sprints send the calories to the muscles. "Cardio" sends the calories to fat storage, and the jogger draws from there.

    Simplified, but accurate.

  5. #15
    Allenete's Avatar
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    Walking and high intensity such as resistance training and sprints send the calories to the muscles. "Cardio" sends the calories to fat storage, and the jogger draws from there.
    Could you clarify what you mean here?

    By "sends the calories" do you mean "draws the calories(energy)" from these sources?

  6. #16
    Vick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenete View Post
    Could you clarify what you mean here?

    By "sends the calories" do you mean "draws the calories(energy)" from these sources?
    You are correct. But the sneaky part is for you to draw the calories from there, the body has to send them there and store them so that you can draw them from there. Conventional wisdom has taught us we want to burn fat, when in fact we want to burn "carbs" which are stored in our muscle tissues. Therefore we tell the body to store energy in our muscles.

    High intensity exercise tells the body to increase muscle mass to increase storage to prevent fatigue. Cardio tells the body to reduce muscle mass to prevent fatigue.

    We should eat a high ratio of fat and protein and exercise to burn carbs. Conventional wisdom teaches us to eat carbs and burn fat. Just look at the obesity rates and judge for yourself which way is the right way to go.
    Last edited by Vick; 07-02-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  7. #17
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    You are correct. But the sneaky part is for you to draw the calories from there, the body has to send them there and store them so that you can draw them from there. Conventional wisdom has taught us we want to burn fat, when in fact we want to burn "carbs" which are stored in our muscle tissues. Therefore we tell the body to store energy in our muscles.

    High intensity exercise tells the body to increase muscle mass to increase storage to prevent fatigue. Cardio tells the body to reduce muscle mass to prevent fatigue.

    We should eat a high ratio of fat and protein and exercise to burn carbs. Conventional wisdom teaches us to eat carbs and burn fat. Just look at the obesity rates and judge for yourself which way is the right way to go.
    I gotta say....most of the time when people on here breakdown this kind of thing it is pure rubbish....but that was very well done and succinctly put.

    I am a gearhead, so I put it in terms like this: Pretend you are a car and you have 5 speeds. 1st gear is flat ground walking, and burns fat over many hours. 2nd gear is hiking and builds muscle and burns fat faster. Gears 3 and 4 make you skinny/fat and sore. They will make you a diesel truck without the size....but gear 5....that makes you a Ferrari. You have slow, uphill and slow, and full bore with afterburners on. Everything in between isn't good unless intervals.

  8. #18
    Iron Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenete View Post
    I just sat in on a Q&S session at my gym, and one of the things mentioned was that while cardio burns fat, it mostly burns the fat that is under your skin, while weight training burns the fat deeper inside. This is the first I've heard if this!

    Any can back that up?
    How/why?
    ...Umm isn't all fat under the skin?

    I know I know Subcutaneous vs. Visceral fat storage. I just had to say it because no one else had yet. Do certain types of exercise burn different types of body fat? Simply as movement for calorie expendature no, but as causation to hormonal adjustments.... Possibly...

    The person you heard was probabably speaking in the simple terms of moving weight or increasing heart rate to burn calories and in this basic equation no. He/she doesn't know what they're talking about. The only way to really adjust the Sub/Vis fat storage is through diet, but lets dig into that a little further.

    Hormones regulate everthing in your body from breathing to hunger to heart rate to muscle growth and fat storage. To dig even further than that, studies have shown that lifting heavy weight increase testosterone levels directly after the exercise programs while steady state cardio increases cortisol levels directly after exercise.

    Testosterone helps manage fat stores on the body by breaking it down and removing it. Cortisol is a stress hormone that causes increased fat storage, specifically in the abdominal area (Insulin in the lower back, estrogen in the chest and hips). Cortisol is a very important hormone because it helps us wake up in the morning, supports our adrenal glands (more hormones), supports the fight or flight system. Basically it helps us to function normally. It's when we have an excess of it that it causes a problem and yes steady state cardio does cause an excess amount to be produced. Testosterone is the same way. It's great when you have just the right amount, but too much causes cancers, liver/kidney damage, blood clots lots of nasties.

    Sorry tangent. To get back to my point. This is way to simple an explaination but when you are lifting weights you are increasing testosterone which will lower body fat. When you are doing cardio, you are increasing cortisol which will increase body fat, but both of these are again more specific to subcutaneous fat... Initially...

    lol more or less confused?

  9. #19
    Iron Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vick View Post
    You are correct. But the sneaky part is for you to draw the calories from there, the body has to send them there and store them so that you can draw them from there. Conventional wisdom has taught us we want to burn fat, when in fact we want to burn "carbs" which are stored in our muscle tissues. Therefore we tell the body to store energy in our muscles.

    High intensity exercise tells the body to increase muscle mass to increase storage to prevent fatigue. Cardio tells the body to reduce muscle mass to prevent fatigue.

    We should eat a high ratio of fat and protein and exercise to burn carbs. Conventional wisdom teaches us to eat carbs and burn fat. Just look at the obesity rates and judge for yourself which way is the right way to go.
    Sorry to call you out but this isn't entirely true. Muscles don't store carbs. Carbs are "stored" in the body as fat. When Carbs are being used they are broken down into simple sugars then sent to the muscles for energy. If your goals is weight loss the key is to make sure your body is "storing" less carbs than expending. The idea that "carbs" are directed to the muscles being used is incorrect.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Will View Post
    Sorry to call you out but this isn't entirely true. Muscles don't store carbs. Carbs are "stored" in the body as fat. When Carbs are being used they are broken down into simple sugars then sent to the muscles for energy. If your goals is weight loss the key is to make sure your body is "storing" less carbs than expending. The idea that "carbs" are directed to the muscles being used is incorrect.
    Well, no, Vick is actually correct. Carbohydrates are stored in muscle cells, they are stored as glycogen. Glycogen is a polysaccharide (a complex carb) that muscles chop up into glucose when quick fuel is needed (like during intense activity). This process is called glycolysis, which is why intense activity is often referred to as glycolytic.

    Carbs are also stored in the liver in this same way.

    It's generally only when the liver and muscles are full of glycogen, and thus unable to store any more, that carbs are converted into fat and then stored as such.

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