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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    ChocoTaco has said the same thing when hijacking support threads.

    Someone is wrong on the internet!!!
    I don't have a single idea what you're talking about.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Yes, I understand that. I have only jumped in when someone has said something nonsensical. Who said this is an issue? I certainly am not making it an issue and neither is the person I was conversing with. So I'm just supposed to stop expressing my opinion because I've already "had my say in two other threads"? That's ridiculous.
    Meh, hadn't had my coffee yet. Just disregard the first two paragraphs and I'll stand by the third in that post

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
    Chaco, I'd brought up the idea that maybe some grain related issues stem from buggered up gut flora, but it didn't seem to hold traction here. Celiac is a disease long known.

    Also, TIL Celiac kills.

    M.
    Yeah I also had my head in a blog that puts down autoimmune diseases as a function of poor/incorrect gut flora.
    The idea is that our immune response system is "trained" by our good gut flora that have been with us for many thousands of years. When these are replaced by the bad gut flora that rise in number from consistently eating refined sugars, carbs and fats, the immune system responds negatively, leading to alot of the immune problems we see today.

    Very basic description because I'm on my iPhone and aren't a very good tapper


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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Meh, hadn't had my coffee yet. Just disregard the first two paragraphs and I'll stand by the third in that post
    Me either. I guess I need to refrain from the internet until then.

    Anyways, yeah, I understand what you're saying in the last paragraph, but with the gluten issue, I just don't think the research supports some of the claims. I'm not denying that it imposes severe problems for some as you know.

    It's never my intention to be offensive or confrontational, so if I come off that way, let me know. Just voicing my opinion, that's all .
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Me either. I guess I need to refrain from the internet until then.

    Anyways, yeah, I understand what you're saying in the last paragraph, but with the gluten issue, I just don't think the research supports some of the claims. I'm not denying that it imposes severe problems for some as you know.

    It's never my intention to be offensive or confrontational, so if I come off that way, let me know. Just voicing my opinion, that's all .
    There is quality of opinion and what someone might use their opinion for, that worries me.
    There are some on this forum that use their opinion to prescribe dangerous practices (like supplementing hormones) or to instil fear (like your heart rate is under 85, your probably hypothyroid). So opinions can be dangerous.

    Your opinion to me is based a little too much on research/science, but other wise pretty decent and a welcome antagonist to the standard primal view.


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  6. #36
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    Those of you who think celiac can be cured should be putting together a business plan and looking for investors so you can make your millions.

    Let us know how that works out, eh?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Your opinion to me is based a little too much on research/science, but other wise pretty decent and a welcome antagonist to the standard primal view.
    I tend to lean towards the research because of the fact that there is such a variance in personal experience. Yes, a large part of this forum has an intolerance towards gluten/diary/whatever, but this is a very selective community. Looking past this forum, I don't think you can discount personal experience, for example, from someone saying they've been consuming gluten their entire life with no problem at all.

    Just an observation: some on the forum are quick to support their claims using their personal experience or the experience of others on the forum, but they are just as quick to shoot down the personal experience of people who have differing views.

    This is why I lean towards the research.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    I tend to lean towards the research because of the fact that there is such a variance in personal experience. Yes, a large part of this forum has an intolerance towards gluten/diary/whatever, but this is a very selective community. Looking past this forum, I don't think you can discount personal experience, for example, from someone saying they've been consuming gluten their entire life with no problem at all.

    Just an observation: some on the forum are quick to support their claims using their personal experience or the experience of others on the forum, but they are just as quick to shoot down the personal experience of people who have differing views.

    This is why I lean towards the research.
    Yeah I'm pretty much in agreeance here, although I would like to point one thing out;

    Science/research is based on a repeatable observation given a standardised set of variables. It generally lags behind hypothesis. Meaning you have to "have" a hypothesis before you can test that hypothesis. Science is in the testing of hypothesis's not in their formulation. Any science/research you quote has been through this process.

    Alot of non scientist formulate hypothesis for things, MDA visitors very much do this. Alot of these hypothesis are bogus, but there are some that would stick.

    When one goes and quotes science on a person quoting a hypothesis, your not really doing much, that hypothesis exist outside of science.

    An even more pertinent fact is that you can't disprove a hypothesis with science, you can only confirm it. You can only say a hypothesis is correct by doing an experiment and confirming the results. If the experiment fails it may not be because the hypothesis was wrong, you mightn't of had all the confirming variables in your experiment.

    That's why the science quoters fight with the hypothesisers on this board.


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  9. #39
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    While I usually disagree with Choco, on this issue he's on the right track.

    We MUST realize that the article was written from a CW point of view. A CW which sees whole wheat as heart-healthy. In the CW community, gluten is fast becoming the new scapegoat. The reasoning is that if you avoid gluten, you can have all the baked goods you want... as long as its in moderation and you exercise, etc. The writer of the article is warning against that. She says that there's so much good stuff in wheat, like fiber, that you shouldn't avoid wheat unless you're really celiac.

    Of course all of it's hogwash. We shouldn't be eating wheat at all,* and gluten-free usually means empty carb grains. Hence the frustration of the OP.

    ---------------
    *for jakejoh10: I know you're not as anti-wheat as the rest of the board. I am against wheat because it gives me acid reflux, because it's addictive and makes me hungry, and because I eat enough veggies (80-90 g) that I don't have any carb grams left over at the end of the day to eat grains anyway. Now, if *you* don't suffer any effects, are active enough to need the extra carbs, and can do it in moderation without being addicted, well then I guess wheat is okay for *you.* Just be aware that wheat may have insidious side effects that you wouldn't feel.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Yeah I'm pretty much in agreeance here, although I would like to point one thing out;

    Science/research is based on a repeatable observation given a standardised set of variables. It generally lags behind hypothesis. Meaning you have to "have" a hypothesis before you can test that hypothesis. Science is in the testing of hypothesis's not in their formulation. Any science/research you quote has been through this process.

    Alot of non scientist formulate hypothesis for things, MDA visitors very much do this. Alot of these hypothesis are bogus, but there are some that would stick.

    When one goes and quotes science on a person quoting a hypothesis, your not really doing much, that hypothesis exist outside of science.

    An even more pertinent fact is that you can't disprove a hypothesis with science, you can only confirm it. You can only say a hypothesis is correct by doing an experiment and confirming the results. If the experiment fails it may not be because the hypothesis was wrong, you mightn't of had all the confirming variables in your experiment.

    That's why the science quoters fight with the hypothesisers on this board.
    Agreed on all points.
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