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Thread: Oh I might just cry.. *sigh* page 3

  1. #21
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allenete View Post
    You're right, it's in the context of switching wheat to GF, not Paleo.
    However, it's still in the context of CW.

    The comment "if you can't cut calories and save on carbs, what makes GF healthier" ... really? Healthy is about less calories and less carbs? Have you MET gluten? It does things to our bodies that is much worse than nutritionally empty food. To be diagnosed as a celiac you have to be on the extreme spectrum of gluten sensitivity. You have to be at the point of no return. Meanwhile, I really believe most, if not all, of us have a gluten sensitivity. Some may not be aware of it, some may think they have indigestion and bloating.

    A regular muffin and a GF muffin may both be evil, but I'm not sure wheat is the lesser of the two evils. Both are highly processed, refined and sugary, but given no choice I'd rather go GF and leave "nutritional fortification" to other (real) food.
    I don't think gluten is healthy. I think it is better to avoid gluten, at least regularly, for obvious reasons. However, gluten gets far more credit than it deserves around here. People think wheat is the worst thing on Earth. It isn't. In fact, if your body is healthy, gluten here and there will probably not hurt you at all. People are so metabolically ill from all the polyunsaturated fats in their diet and all the funky hormones, pesticides and steroids in our foods, gluten becomes a trigger for autoimmune conditions. Food allergies are through the roof - peanut allergies, gluten intolerance - ALL OF IT. Make no mistake, it is the vast difference in fats that we intake and all the weird proteins from all the screwed up animals we're fed these days. Gluten is a bullet, not the person behind the trigger. Blaming it is shortsighted.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    It makes no sense at all to recommend that people who know they are gluten intolerant and know they are going to be sick for weeks if they eat gluten should keep eating gluten regardless, anymore than it does to pretend that the overwhelming majority of people with celiac or non-celiac gluten intolerance, who have never been diagnosed and have no idea, will do just fine for the rest of their lives eating gluten. FAIL.
    If your gut flora is so screwed up from overconsumption of polyunsaturated fats and antibiotics that you can no longer digest gluten, is removing gluten the answer?

    The shortsighted answer is "yes." The real answer to the problem is to heal your body so gluten no longer permeates your gut lining. That, of course, is a lot more work. Celiac disease is on the rise because of the PUFA and antibiotics we consume in excess every day. We can't digest these grains anymore. Yes, grains are less than ideal food and far less healthy than meat, fruits and vegetables, but we need to stop taking this narrow view of health, cursing individual foods for being "evil," and view the body as a single cell. This community lacks the ability to view the big picture and focuses too much on minor details.

    Gluten is a problem because our bodies are so screwed up we have turned it into one.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiGiEats View Post
    I just ditch it all and eat vegetables for my carbohydrates and fiber - I don't need all that confusing nonsense in my life! lol
    Me, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    I eat wheat; I fart. Farting is probably not a sign of good health.
    Ha ha. I eat kale; I fart. What is with all the kale everywhere? It's like the new wheat or something.

    There's another forum I read now and then with a guy who likes to comb pub med for interesting research. He has basically come to the conclusion, because of all the studies he's read, that pretty much every auto-immune degenerative disease we have these days has its basis in the gut permeability changes caused by wheat.

    It's a perfect storm we have: dwarf wheat, wheat eaten to excess, refined "vegetable" fats and refined sugar.

    But yeah, the article cited is technically correct: If you're going to switch from regular gluten products to gluten-free products, you're not doing much to prevent poor health outcomes in your future. Where it falls short is it doesn't tell you what you really SHOULD do which is get your fiber from veggies and fruit and get your B vitamins from meat, seafood and organ meats.
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  4. #24
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    Chaco, I'd brought up the idea that maybe some grain related issues stem from buggered up gut flora, but it didn't seem to hold traction here. Celiac is a disease long known.

    Also, TIL Celiac kills.

    M.

  5. #25
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    Its a convoluted subject, but OUR wheat is a major health issue. Of course its not the only problem and we all recognize that. Of course if someone asked "What is Primal?"..... The response would not be "Oh, its the gluten free diet!"...... I've never ever ever ever once heard anybody say that on this forum or elsewhere. And if they did they would be incorrect.

    Its a part of the problem. Vegetable oils (I said that instead of PUFA on purpose..... PUFA is not my enemy!!!) are part of the problem. GMO, antibiotics, sugar ect.... all parts of the problem. Nobody has the evidence to prove any one of these things are MORE problematic in a living human animal than the other, unless we have specific data on ONE living human animal and we are evaluating and making recommendation to that ONE person.

    The Primal Blueprint is public policy. It states these are the known changes and subsequent issues from ancestral society to now. We can identify the players in disease. We avoid these things without detriment to health regardless if I am particularly sensitive to one or not. Many times we have vague symptoms that don't even fit modern definition of disease that resolve. This is the "hey I didn't even know I could feel this good!" effect. You never know unless you get rid of ALL OF IT. Its synergistic and holistic. Taking the reductionistic view of "well this is worse than this...." is suboptimal.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    If your gut flora is so screwed up from overconsumption of polyunsaturated fats and antibiotics that you can no longer digest gluten, is removing gluten the answer?

    The shortsighted answer is "yes." The real answer to the problem is to heal your body so gluten no longer permeates your gut lining. That, of course, is a lot more work. Celiac disease is on the rise because of the PUFA and antibiotics we consume in excess every day. We can't digest these grains anymore. Yes, grains are less than ideal food and far less healthy than meat, fruits and vegetables, but we need to stop taking this narrow view of health, cursing individual foods for being "evil," and view the body as a single cell. This community lacks the ability to view the big picture and focuses too much on minor details.

    Gluten is a problem because our bodies are so screwed up we have turned it into one.
    This is a fantasy on your part. There is no science behind it.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    No OP shouldn't expect such backlash. Its a substantial aspect of the theory we are working under. Dude, you had your say in the other two threads.... Is this going to be an issue every single time someone makes a comment on wheat? I can understand why you jumped in on those other two threads, but this is getting silly.
    Yes, I understand that. I have only jumped in when someone has said something nonsensical. Who said this is an issue? I certainly am not making it an issue and neither is the person I was conversing with. So I'm just supposed to stop expressing my opinion because I've already "had my say in two other threads"? That's ridiculous.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Yes, I understand that. I have only jumped in when someone has said something nonsensical. Who said this is an issue? I certainly am not making it an issue and neither is the person I was conversing with. So I'm just supposed to stop expressing my opinion because I've already "had my say in two other threads"? That's ridiculous.
    ChocoTaco has said the same thing when hijacking support threads.

    Someone is wrong on the internet!!!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
    Chaco, I'd brought up the idea that maybe some grain related issues stem from buggered up gut flora, but it didn't seem to hold traction here. Celiac is a disease long known.

    Also, TIL Celiac kills.

    M.
    You would be correct.

    When I was in college, I was required to have the Gold meal plan. That means every single meal was at the Drexel University cafeteria. Now, I'm an Italian from South Jersey. I ate homemade pasta and tomato gravy 2-3 nights a week, bread with virtually every meal and cereal frequently. I never had a health issue aside from some chubby pudge. All foods were homemade. The only cooking fats in our house were butter and olive oil. When I went away to Drexel within 3 months:

    1.) I developed eczema between my fingers and on the tops of my hands.
    2.) My hair fell out along my temples

    These problems persisted until I moved off campus 2 years later. Once I started cooking my own foods, it all went away like magic, even though I made homemade pizza and pasta almost every night. I fermented my own dough's with King Arthur flour and baker's yeast. Again, only butter and olive oil in my house.

    I didn't put it together until about a year ago that it was the soybean oil in everything at the cafeteria that made me sick. Another side effect of the cooking - landslide shits. I would refer it as "blowing out your o-ring." Again, not an issue even on a wheat-heavy diet for me.

    Obviously, my diet is vastly improved now with the elimination of 90% of grains as well (I do a dozen organic corn tortillas a week and white rice on occasion if someone makes it for me or it comes with a dinner when out to eat). I'm much leaner and feel much better, but it was the PUFA's screwing me up. Some of my hair grew back as well.

    Gluten, in my opinion and experience, is not so much a cause of disease but rather a trigger once your body is very unhealthy. Chronic gluten consumption I could see as becoming problematic as it is an inflammatory protein, but make no mistake about it, if all of our guts weren't so screwed up from the PUFA and antibiotics (they're in everything from meats to eggs to dish soaps to the water we drink since people flush their pills down their toilets!) we ingest, we would not be nearly as sensitive and much more resistant to these diseases. It's the fats and chemicals breaking down our bodies that make us weak to the more inflammatory proteins.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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