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Thread: Primal Blueprint The Movie: Mixed Feelings page 2

  1. #11
    PeaceCorpsCaveMan's Avatar
    PeaceCorpsCaveMan is offline Senior Member
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    Primal Fuel
    I admit to knowing more than most about sustainable agriculture as a former Marketing Facilitator for Sustainable Agriculture. I imagine a few bad scenarios happening if this gets too popular. First, more regulation against small farmers. FYI, there is ALREADY a prohibitive amount of state and federal regulation working against small farmers (i.e. milk, cured food, tax laws, zoning laws, health codes, etc., etc.). Second, popularity could move away from the small sustainable food sellers (grass-fed, organic, sustainable, bio-dynamic, etc.) to some sort of watered down mass-scale certification program which hurts the ability of the little guy to compete.

    I see demand outstripping supply of land and natural resources very quickly, leading to higher prices and lower standards just like many things that get popular (i.e. USDA organic, etc). I really believe the most sustainable food supply relies on trust and human relationships which is not possible on a large scale. I imagine what we will get if 5x the amount of people are demanding even conventional beef, for example. We could see $10/lb* corn fed beef pretty quickly (*I just made this number up). I imagine the price of farm-land going up as well, which makes it harder for people to move towards homesteading and small farms, which I believe is the more-sustainable route.

    My gut tells me the concept some people in the "movement" have that more people getting on board with the paleo diet, better agriculture practices, and fresh food which increases standards, availability, and accountability is unrealistic and likely incorrect.

    Am I just being negative? Do you guys really trust the agro-industrio-gov-complex to do the right thing?
    Last edited by PeaceCorpsCaveMan; 06-26-2013 at 10:54 AM.

  2. #12
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    I doubt it's going to happen so quickly that markets collapse and CAFO meat prices double. We've got one in nine families on food stamps, so I'm assuming about 11% of the population can't switch to better sources of food, especially meat, even if they wanted to. We've got the affluent, many of whom have probably been eating pretty good quality food all along. Veggies and old hippies went organic forty years ago. And we have a whole bunch of people who will never give up the convenience of drive through food no matter what you tell them.

    From here: Agricultural Marketing Service - Farmers Market Growth



    So while farmers markets are thriving and are actually a sector that continues to thrive even in a crap economy, they probably haven't put a dent in major grocery chains.

    It will be a wonderful time when all food is grown in a healthful manner, but it's most likely not going to happen overnight - even with movies and books.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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  3. #13
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    What we have is a result of our country's agricultural policy. The cheap food is what is subsidized. I wonder if values will change in my lifetime. But if they did, it would not be a complicated thing for the government to subsidize something different, or to vary the value of food stamps based on the nutrition of the food that was purchased.

    Food stamps are a major agricultural subsidy. They aren't managed to promote nutrition, but they could be.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
    Dude! At this rate his children will be farming underground!
    Nothing like a little humus humor.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    From a different POV, if sustainable farms make a living for those who run them, more people will go into organic farming and raising healthy animals. IOW, often, if a business has a line around the block, someone will be smart enough to open another one nearby.

    There's plenty of good food around. You might have to find a source that sells NZealand beef, but it's out there.
    I agree with this.

    The sustainable farms that do best tend to grow to expand their offerings which provides more opportunities and food diversity. Good stuff!

  6. #16
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    FWIW, I'm trying to set up a local farmers market here, and what I discovered is that it could be quite profitable for me -- the person managing the darn thing. I do it as a community service, but hey, I can make extra cash. Sweet.

  7. #17
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    I like food movies so I am a bit biased. Also, I love Mark's writing style because it's fun. I'm in Michigan so I can't imagine not having enough farmland. In fact, I agree that our values as a country are not going to change quickly enough for a movement toward sustainable farming to be detrimental. I see it as being for people who can afford it (unfortunately) and not for the masses. I also agree that should our values shift, the government can subsidize something different. I think that this way of thinking, eating, and living is so far from the mainstream that there's really not a danger of it becoming mainstream before it's time. I used to be vegan (which is really now mainstream) and find that CW is infiltrating that movement. I considered myself pretty knowledgeable about food issues and I had never heard of Paleo/Primal. LOL. I'm loving it but I can't imagine the masses loving it too much for now.
    "I came to live out loud!" -Emile Zola

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
    I agree with this.

    The sustainable farms that do best tend to grow to expand their offerings which provides more opportunities and food diversity. Good stuff!
    Yup. That's what I was getting at with my comment about understanding markets. And the building topsoil/restoring land on its way to desertification stuff was what I was getting at with the comment about understanding planets.

  9. #19
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    I disagree with the idea that says "No movies or publicity. We will get too powerful and they will adulterate the movement."

    I definitely think this WOULD happen, because it is an inevitability. A bigger tent means some people selling in there aren't as true blue as you'd want them to be, and the big corporations would indeed come in. With that all said, I see that as preferable to the current situation, because it might help to attack one of our biggest problems as a country, and change the food system in the process.

    In the local/paleo/sustainable movement, people complain that the gov is run by ConAgra, Monsanto, or other multi-nationals, keeping the current model of monoculture and subsidy in place....well, I got news for you. That is what everyone thinks, in every industry. Hardware stores complain that the gov makes them incapable of competing with Home Depot or Lowe's. Local phone companies have no chance against ATT or Verizon. Walmart crushes every small business within 30 miles....all out of gov advantage, and well, that all has a cost outside of pure economics. The fact that some have to buy REAL beef off the internet and pay $9 a pound for it is just our own particular external cost. Other groups have theirs.

    Which is why Mark could make the best movie in the history of man and it won't make a bit of difference. The big guns against OUR particular movement would rise up to lie, distort, and exaggerate it into marginality....just like they do to everyone else, in other movements. Trust me, we are in no danger of threatening anyone. We will never not be underdogs. We are not going to be in the masses. Veganism has a few MNC's using its FrankenWheat, but its by no means mainstream.

    Here is why we are no threat whatsoever:
    Multi-nationals of all kinds, including in the food industry, run the government. They get to write the laws in everything. We have no chance. That is grim, but it is reality.(If you doubt that, please read the farm bill just passed. Then go lookup who wrote it and who they work for. Then do it for the telecom bill from last fall. Same pattern everywhere) We will be the counter-culture for a very long time. If that ever changes, it would mean the unseating of the real owners of the country. The fact that grass-fed beef would be easier to get would be the most minor of life's changes....

    So don't fret. There is not going to be any mass movement for pastured beef, humane animal practices, or any of the like. The owners don't want that, so it will not happen. Simple. All of this talk about using too much land, water, etc, is not going to happen. It would be really nice if THOSE were the problems we concerned ourselves with. "Golly, where do we graze all of this humanely raised grass-fed beef?" I'd think I woke up as the mayor in heaven

    The best you can do is be in one of the few pockets of the country where, through enormous effort, every industry isn't in the stranglehold of the multi-nationals, be that in food production or telephone or coffee shops.

    I applaud anything that pushes back to that Goliath, regardless of style.

  10. #20
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    It looks lame, but if it helps make more people interested in a healthier lifestyle then I see no problem with it.

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