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Thread: Is this what we've come to? page 17

  1. #161
    sbhikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    how about growing the hell up?
    The problem with those Pinterest things is that stuff like that is what media is these days and it's not created by Cosmo or TV or a bunch of gay guys looking for walking coat hangers for their fashion shoots. It's created by the girls themselves. It's internalized at such a young age that "growing up" isn't yet a possibility. And then it is held there deep inside the psyche for a very very long time. My grandmother learned it and passed it to my mother. My mother learned it and both of them passed it to me. Nothing in life is as important to a woman as what she looks like. Everything will depend on it. Even the freakin' US Secretary of State can't enjoy her success without the whole world commenting on the size of her thighs.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 190 x 3

  2. #162
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    TheyCallMeLazarus is online now Senior Member
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    I agree with you.

    However explaining just how effective they have been at infantalizing us is not a cause for sympathizing to it. It is a case for fighting it harder, ignoring it more fervently.

    I understand that the reality is that women were objectified for hundreds of years, and still are in many parts of the world. As men, we were made into being the "lords" of our "property", and this included everything from owning large homes to being ideal "providers" for our family....the vestiges of this are still around today, and must be called out everywhere they are found.

    Obviously, the world has changed. Many of the "double standards" we hold for the appearance of women, and why some act as if they are judged solely by it, harken back to the days when that was ALL they had to worry about. Women 80 years ago really WERE expected to be beautiful home-makers. They weren't running companies or having careers.

    Fast forward several decades, and you see that same antiquated mentality being pushed on young girls and everyone else. When you add to it that it sells, creates juvenile men and insecure women to sell it to, it becomes very potent....tradition and capitalism are a powerful combination.

    What I am saying is that we have to show why NOT to listen, not find ways to accommodate the media's destructive model....

  3. #163
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    What I am saying is that we have to show why NOT to listen, not find ways to accommodate the media's destructive model....
    For a lot of women the problem starts with their mothers.... That's what drives me nuts about some women...your daughters can hear and see you being nitwits about your body. My mom was pretty harsh to me. I just remember she was so snippy about my weight with regards to my horseback riding. The message was always "too fat to win" even at a young age being told I look fat...by my mom. And I wasn't even that fat as a kid- stout, not elegant, but also very active. The other thing was.... she was wrong. For the most part, they were judging my horse's performance...

    It's a message I have carried with me for years "they think you look fat", through job interviews, a marathon, college, working out. So it sucks, its going into something with a giant insecurity.

    So.... nothing was really gained by her fat nagging. Who made a difference? Dad who told me he was afraid for my health, and my brother who has been a constant good example for health.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    What I am saying is that we have to show why NOT to listen, not find ways to accommodate the media's destructive model....
    +1. A Lion in Iron: Women

  5. #165
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    Speaking from experience, it's fucking hard to get that destructive model out of your head.

    I KNOW my self worth is not gauged by the size of my thighs. I KNOW the intrinsic is more important than the extrinsic. I KNOW the media's perpetuation of unrealistic standards of beauty is perverted, and insidious, and wrong.

    We all KNOW.

    Well, except for that confused, scared 13-year-old who lives in my head and tells me I can't wear shorts because my legs are fat and gross (they're not). That little girl has been putting me down for 30+ years and I desperately want her to shut the fuck up and go away. But she's relentless. And persistent. And she won't be rationalized away.

    I understand there is emotional work I must do to banish her. Or at least make her say something nice to me. I'm still working on it.

    As for young girls, OF COURSE it's imperative we show them "why NOT to listen or find ways to accommodate the media's destructive model.." because, from my experience, once the damage is done, it's hard to undo.

  6. #166
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    Was his photo under moderation? How did we miss having a response to TheyCallMeLazarus's photo of:

    WOW

    I agree, though, where are the thighs?
    Are they just as nice?

  7. #167
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    Just how do we NOT listen? I mean, there is a razor thin line to walk here. If we have thigh gaps we're anorexic. If we have just a little too much natural womanly cottage cheese thigh going on we "don't care about our health." Thighs are appropriately large only if we can squat bodyweight + and have abs. It's maddening. If I acquire an attitude of "fuck you I'm a lioness hear me roar" but I still don't have the body that looks right is that enough? I've been lifting weights for 8 months. No abs yet. Plenty of cottage cheese and muffin top. Plenty of fuck you I'm a lioness, but can you, the ordinary average person walking past me on the street, hear it? Even more, can l little miss "I must, I must, I must increase my thigh gap" hear it?
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 190 x 3

  8. #168
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    spk
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    Whoa is right. It was under moderation and now I understand why. Didn't see it until just .... sorry the pic is distracting!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabine View Post
    Was his photo under moderation? How did we miss having a response to TheyCallMeLazarus's photo of:

    WOW

    I agree, though, where are the thighs?
    Are they just as nice?
    Last edited by spk; 06-29-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: made. no. sense.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Just how do we NOT listen? I mean, there is a razor thin line to walk here. If we have thigh gaps we're anorexic. If we have just a little too much natural womanly cottage cheese thigh going on we "don't care about our health." Thighs are appropriately large only if we can squat bodyweight + and have abs. It's maddening. If I acquire an attitude of "fuck you I'm a lioness hear me roar" but I still don't have the body that looks right is that enough? I've been lifting weights for 8 months. No abs yet. Plenty of cottage cheese and muffin top. Plenty of fuck you I'm a lioness, but can you, the ordinary average person walking past me on the street, hear it? Even more, can l little miss "I must, I must, I must increase my thigh gap" hear it?
    I agree, the average passerby on the street doesn't know if you are gaining, losing, or maintaining your weight and build. It's practically impossible to block out all comments about how you look and if you have more people making disparaging remarks rather than supportive ones, it is hard to build and maintain a healthy level of self confidence. I think that's why forums like this are popular. It's a lot easier to get support from people with similar views and situations.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Just how do we NOT listen? I mean, there is a razor thin line to walk here. If we have thigh gaps we're anorexic. If we have just a little too much natural womanly cottage cheese thigh going on we "don't care about our health." Thighs are appropriately large only if we can squat bodyweight + and have abs. It's maddening. If I acquire an attitude of "fuck you I'm a lioness hear me roar" but I still don't have the body that looks right is that enough? I've been lifting weights for 8 months. No abs yet. Plenty of cottage cheese and muffin top. Plenty of fuck you I'm a lioness, but can you, the ordinary average person walking past me on the street, hear it? Even more, can l little miss "I must, I must, I must increase my thigh gap" hear it?
    I find people are uncomfortable around me when I'm in "confident mode". If I feel good about myself, others in the street often look to the ground instead of meeting my eyes, males check me out, speak awkwardly and/or try and appear more "masculine" and I feel I'm a combination of avoided and admired. When I'm feeling a little insecure, quiet or in pain, people react like I see them react to anyone else.
    I know I have body dysmorphia. I know what I see in the mirror is not what others see and that my idea of what my body looks like changes every day. So I don't worry much about what I look like and what others think I look like. When they see me with my head up, meet my eyes and immediately look at the pavement, continually scan my body as though judging, yet not seeming to find flaw, when men watch my hips, breasts, ass and legs regardless of how much or how little I'm wearing and kids and dogs still like me and find me approachable, I find it safe to assume I'm looking awesome. And yet it has more to do with how I carry myself than what my body itself actually LOOKS like.

    People can tell confidence from a mile away. And confidence causes more desire, envy and social anxiety than anyone's image of attractiveness does. You can dismiss skinniness, curviness, muscularity, pretty faces, nice hips... You can even turn them into something to mock (scrawny, tubby, hunky, dolled-up, fat ass...). You can't dismiss confidence. Annoyingly, the catch is that, to become confident, you have to dismiss your personal idea of attractiveness and dismiss any concerns about social judgement. Which few people can easily do.
    Last edited by Kochin; 06-29-2013 at 11:52 AM.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

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