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Thread: Is this what we've come to? page 16

  1. #151
    Kochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    that's the argument I always make to my wife about most make-up, definitely having her nails done, and the time and attention that she spends getting dressed. Most men literally don't even notice, so it must be to impress/threaten rival women.
    Yup. As someone very settled and who wasn't fussed about competition (there is none, trust me ), I never bothered with all that "make-up and dress nice for the first 3 months" nonsense. I wear make-up when I go somewhere VERY posh. I wear jewellery when I feel like it and only meaningful things that he gave me.
    I ask my fiance outright if he'd like me to wear/do something. When we first met-up (we started dating before we met in person) if he'd like me to wear anything special or put on make-up for him. He said to come as I'd feel comfortable. So I did. I wore a nice t-shirt and a pair of jeans and no make-up. I learned very early on that he appreciated nice underwear, a well-fitting dress or pair of jeans and when I'd wear something he got me. I also learned that he wasn't bothered about make-up, messy hair (or bad hair days), extent of shaving, painted nails..etc

    Yet the women who put the most effort into their dress are the ones who have JUST started dating a man who they think is a catch. [Note: the sort of woman who takes pride in being a home-breaker puts the most effort into her dress when starting to approach a married man. But they're strange outliers, nowhere near the norm.] They may have known him for 10+ years. He's seen them in silly pajamas, without make-up, on a bad hair day or with unshaven legs. He knows they can be like that. But they're worried they don't look "appropriate" or that other women will hit on him/"steal" him. It extends to weight, too. Teenage girls with EDs often want to be skinny because (due to their obvious lack of confidence) other women "flirt" with their partners right in front of them. They think being thinner will make them look "right" and protect their relationship, when a bit of obvious jealousy, a serious conversation with the partner and a confident act in public would do the trick better.
    Other women can be very, very strange.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

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    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    When my kid was 7 years old she started crying one day at the dinner table. I asked why, and she said it was because she was "fat and lazy". Her father, my ex-husband, had told her so.

    Maybe she should have just pulled herself up by her bootstraps.
    That's awful. That is basically child abuse. And yes, emotional abuse counts.

    If she'd heard that from school, I'd agree with the above and (gently, as she's young), explain to her that people are sometimes mean just to upset you (and therefore shouldn't be listened to as they'd say ANYTHING to upset you), sometimes don't know what they're saying (they could have meant another thing, but been blunt) and sometimes just get angry and are rude on purpose, not to hurt you but because they aren't thinking. Basically tell her she'll hear those things and that they don't mean anything. But when it's an adult, that's hard to explain to a child. Children look up to adults, view them as authority. If an adult cannot be trusted, then that turns a child's world upside down. Especially at that age (at 13-14 maybe they can cope with adults being idiots, but at 7 it can be quite a shock). And, I repeat, it's abuse.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    And, I repeat, it's abuse.
    Is it? We don't know the backstory. There have been several times in my life where I have been both fat and lazy. Is calling me such abuse or is it stating fact? There are many kids who are both fat and lazy. There are many fat and lazy adults. They are of all ages and sexes. So is it abuse if it is true? (Not saying it was true, as perhaps eKatherine's daughter was a willowy workaholic and ex was just a douche, but to assume the opposite is no more true without context).

    Not that I think calling your kids fat and lazy is good parenting, but to automatically jump to abuse based on one incident with no background is a bit trigger happy.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

    What the F&#* is a decorum? - Mr. Anthony

  4. #154
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    I've talked to a lot of guys about makeup. I went through a phase where I was doing a little project on it and questioned guys who didn't realize they were the subjects. What I found was that every guy will tell you he hates it when a woman wears too much makeup. But hardly any will recognize when a woman is wearing lots of well-applied makeup to the extent she has completely changed her looks. Heck, my landlord didn't even recognize me the day I wore makeup, and I see him all the time.

    If you show a woman before and after photos like this, she will see it is the same woman, but made up. The guy may not recognize that it is the same woman. They may just see the after as a more attractive woman than the before.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Is it? We don't know the backstory. There have been several times in my life where I have been both fat and lazy. Is calling me such abuse or is it stating fact? There are many kids who are both fat and lazy. There are many fat and lazy adults. They are of all ages and sexes. So is it abuse if it is true? (Not saying it was true, as perhaps eKatherine's daughter was a willowy workaholic and ex was just a douche, but to assume the opposite is no more true without context).

    Not that I think calling your kids fat and lazy is good parenting, but to automatically jump to abuse based on one incident with no background is a bit trigger happy.
    She was a little kid. Little kids aren't lazy. They don't have jobs to slack off on. She was neither skinny nor fat. She wore regular sized clothes.

    The back story is that he feels morally obligated to harass family members who haven't chosen to be perfect as he has. He used to nag me for hours on end because, at 5'4", I weighed more than 100 pounds.

    He associates the words "fat" and "lazy". If someone fits his definition of "fat", they are by definition "lazy".

    The day I left him was the first day of the rest of my life.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    The day I left him was the first day of the rest of my life.
    Ah, so he was a douche. Thanks for the background. Good to hear you and your daughter got away from him.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

    What the F&#* is a decorum? - Mr. Anthony

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Is it? We don't know the backstory. There have been several times in my life where I have been both fat and lazy. Is calling me such abuse or is it stating fact? There are many kids who are both fat and lazy. There are many fat and lazy adults. They are of all ages and sexes. So is it abuse if it is true? (Not saying it was true, as perhaps eKatherine's daughter was a willowy workaholic and ex was just a douche, but to assume the opposite is no more true without context).

    Not that I think calling your kids fat and lazy is good parenting, but to automatically jump to abuse based on one incident with no background is a bit trigger happy.
    Note: saying a fat and lazy child is fat and lazy may be a statement of fact. However, if a child hasn't been spoken to like that before, then it can be very hurtful. It's an attack. Telling a girl she's a bit overweight, tubby or should be going out/helping at home more would be more reasonable, from a parent's perspective. Discussing it with your partner/the other parent first may be more appropriate. Judging by the response, the wording truly shocked the girl. She wasn't ready for that.
    I'm blunt and have very little empathy. Even I understand that tact is needed with people who are sensitive. Children nowadays are very fragile (arguably too fragile, but that's not the point). When someone's emotional stability is fragile and their power for logic is yet immature, you don't call them fat and lazy.

    [PS: The response is a response to Canio's point, not necessarily to the situation. I am now aware that the girl was not fat or lazy. But, even if she were, my point is that that is emotional abuse.]
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kochin View Post
    Note: snipped
    I agree that there are better ways to go about it. I am not saying he was right. My objection was to your automatic jump to abuse. Words can be hurtful. Telling a child 'no' when all they have ever heard is 'yes' can be hurtful. Fragile self-esteems and egos can be bruised in all kinds of ways. Back in my day sports had winners and losers. Just 10 years later when my sister played everyone was a winner and score was not kept. It might hurt someone's feelings to be the 'loser'

    It gets a bit ridiculous, though in the case of eKatherine's ex it does seem as if you are correct and this one incident was the norm not the exception.
    somehow I manage to leave my intelligence and decorum at the door wherever I go. I doubt your journal will be an exception to that - not on the rug

    What the F&#* is a decorum? - Mr. Anthony

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    Here we go: First pic ever on here. I want bonus pts!

    Attachment 12191
    I do believe magnolia asked for photos of man thighs, which seem to be missing from this otherwise lovely shot.

  10. #160
    Kochin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    I agree that there are better ways to go about it. I am not saying he was right. My objection was to your automatic jump to abuse. Words can be hurtful. Telling a child 'no' when all they have ever heard is 'yes' can be hurtful. Fragile self-esteems and egos can be bruised in all kinds of ways. Back in my day sports had winners and losers. Just 10 years later when my sister played everyone was a winner and score was not kept. It might hurt someone's feelings to be the 'loser'

    It gets a bit ridiculous, though in the case of eKatherine's ex it does seem as if you are correct and this one incident was the norm not the exception.
    Hence the mention of tact. I do think people are more fragile in every sense today than they used to be. I don't think this is good or should be encouraged. But consistency is ideal. If a child can be shattered by a simple "no", you did something wrong and need to solve it. But, if the child is shattered by every "no", it's still traumatic to go from not being told it ever to being told it all the time. These things need to be adjusted and eased in, not thrown at someone.
    Going from "nothing is too good for precious" straight to "no" is how you get the current generation of kids: entitled, narcissistic, yet fragile and pampered.
    --
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    --
    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...

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