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Thread: How fast can your body realistically get stronger? page 7

  1. #61
    BigChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    Seriously? Look at exrx strength standards.
    so when I was 235 and benching 225 easily my 1rm would have been more so thus you chart puts me (at the time) conferrable at Intermediate borderline advanced .. god wish someone would have said that to me then .. my received reactions / interactions were always you are so untrained unfit unhealthy - same as now


    PS thanks for the link ... glad to at least there are some sort of real baselines out there -- not that it will change people visual perceptions but thanks
    Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013 at 06:54 PM.
    04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
    01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
    12/31/2014 Current weight : 318 lbs
    12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

  2. #62
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    Why sweat the small stuff? Don't lift to get super strong then. Just do it cause its a tool to help you get healthier. Much of the improvements lifting do for health aren't even measured in strength. Its bone density, metabolic changes, increased VO2 max, increased mitochondria..... all that stuff. And you don't even have to bring relative vs absolute strength into the discussion. Again don't sweat the small stuff..... Lift 2x/week for 20 minutes.... eat primal..... do some walking....... chill

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Well, I switched in order to recover from my back injury. But I have sensed that a straight intermediate program isn't enough, so I've done the final set as a set of 3. So in a way it's Starting Strength as a two-day program minus the 2nd day of squatting and with the zig-zagging of weights that an intermediate program has.
    Have you looked at the advanced novice program, where you lift like the original starting strength program but the middle day of squatting is an 80% day? I'm having great success with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Maybe it would help if you both subtracted your body weight from the weight you can lift on the bar. That would leave the extra, the additional weight that you don't already walk around with on a day-to-day basis.

    So, Rich is 295 - 160 = 135
    You are 45 - 450 = -405

    So basically Rich can lift 135lbs more than his own bodyweight. You can't lift anything above your bodyweight. You need to be able to lift 405 pounds more to equal lifting your own body. Rich needs only to lift 25 more pounds to achieve that.

    A lot of your bodyweight isn't being lifted when you squat. It's just sitting there on the ground or moving only a few inches vertically. Rich is moving 135lbs of mass that isn't inside his body a couple of feet. You are moving only 45 pounds.
    Actually, I'm moving 295 that isn't inside my body a couple of feet, not 135. You discounted my bodyweight twice and his bodyweight only once in your analysis.

    To simplify, I'm lifting 1.86x bodyweight for reps. At 450, he'd need to squat 837 for sets of 5 to match my relative strength. Raw. Belt and shoes. Or, to claim bodyweight + 135 on the bar, he'd need to squat 585. For reps.

    But little guys almost always outlift big guys as a percentage of body weight.

    Bottom line is relative strength matters and absolute strength matters. And I'm no pinnacle of either, but I certainly score higher on the former than the latter.

    But he doesn't want to be judged on relative strength. Or told that he's less fit than I. He wants us to acknowledge that as a big guy, he has some modicum of absolute strength. And he is right about that, but it doesn't really do much for him, because if he has to pick up something that weighs a couple hundred pounds, he can't do it and I can.

    Maybe we need to distinguish useful absolute strength from non-useful absolute strength. He's trying to compare his non-useful absolute strength to my useful absolute strength. But that makes no sense. If all he can move around is his bodyweight plus a feather, he can't put the strength to use unless he drops 200# from his frame, while maintaining his current strength levels.

    I'm presently adding substantially more than a pound of weight to the bar for every pound of bodyweight I gain. Which makes sense, since I'm squatting 1.86 pounds of external weight for every pound of bodyweight. He's lifting .1 pounds for every pound of bodyweight. He's gone hundreds of pounds past the point of diminishing returns and probably has to take weight off the bar at this point for every pound he gains. Nobody's telling this guy to gain weight to get stronger, but he wants to be congratulated nonetheless.
    Last edited by RichMahogany; 06-26-2013 at 09:07 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    But he doesn't want to be judged on relative strength. Or told that he's less fit than I. .
    -- correct I don't want to be judged period end of sentences and I was speaking of absolute strength said so many time and totally false I will be the first to say I'm far far far less "fit" then you

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    He wants us to acknowledge that as a big guy, he has some modicum of absolute strength. And he is right about that, but it doesn't really do much for him, because if he has to pick up something that weighs a couple hundred pounds, he can't do it .
    yes and no ... there was a time I was a big guy, not as big as now but still big and went with my fit active thin friend who hiked a lot to get a keg of beer and was totally floored when he asked me to take a handle and help caring it .. I just picked it up and waked off .. so where is the line between fat and none useful - fat and useful and -thin and none useful... kegs weights what they do and don't care who lifts it raw strength is all that matters...(and I truthfully have no idea how much I can pick up or max out at or even what I regally can or can't lift at present -used empty bar as example only, to try and illustrate my point)

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Maybe we need to distinguish useful absolute strength from non-useful absolute strength...
    why strength is strength "how it is used" is a choice ... if you want to lift metal plates and I want to walk around fat mass is mass, weight is weight and the same strength is needed to move the same amount of it ...unless your on the moon or someplace else

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    He's trying to compare his non-useful absolute strength to my useful absolute strength. But that makes no sense. If all he can move around is his bodyweight plus a feather, he can't put the strength to use unless he drops 200# from his frame, while maintaining his current strength levels..
    ... BINGO ... THANK YOU ... that was a big part of what I was saying ... my strength ie how strong I am is NOT an issue I have the strength my weight is the MAJOR problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Nobody's telling this guy to gain weight to get stronger.
    no but many are saying fat people (in general) need to lift to get stronger and stronger is heather ... as we just establish stronger isn't really what I need to be getting. - more fit HELL YES, lose weight most defiantly .. stamina endurance all those things too ... but just raw strength or even arm/leg size nope, nope don't see the need for it other then "would be cool"



    my current goal is just to get back to where I was before lifts wise and body weight- ... which also just happens to have been pointed out that I was lifting press/deads/bench/squats all at an almost advanced level (very cool) ... but something I never had any clue about or realized ..just figured I was a week fat guy then too .. hence my what the hell does "strong" mean as the weight on the bar never seem to matter to anyone's perception of me even when I lifted more then them.

    In over a dozen years 6-7 gyms (globo to cadio to power lifter types) ... I only ever had one guy spot me a few sets most of the times everyone just ignored / pretended like the fat guy wasn't there ..so I never lifted anywhere close to failing or 1rmax stuff, never had a clue what good numbers or amounts where ... I could see I was progressing, adding weight to bar and losing pounds and inch's and even doing more then many around me but yet was still not considered/treated as even marginally successful at lifting fitness ... so was still considering and viewing my self as very very week (like I am now) ... heck at that time I use to point out guys that are "my size now" and ask my GF if I looked like that and being a good GF she always said no ...but I never really believed it as no one else seem to be saying the same type thing .bad body dimorphism or something I guess. thou looking at pics now compared to then it's very obvious the differences.
    Last edited by BigChris; 06-26-2013 at 10:42 PM.
    04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
    01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
    12/31/2014 Current weight : 318 lbs
    12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

  5. #65
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    You're really overthinking it. Just do it.

  6. #66
    BigChris's Avatar
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    I tent to WAY WAY over think over analyze most everything; but then I'm an analyst/programmer by profession - works great with computers suck with people

    and I'm doing it ..... I have the gym membership again, have been back to eating primal for 6 weeks, feeling better (not sure how much I've lost the 445 was at last doc visit in may and my home scale starts at 400 but registers if I lean a little so I know I'm close) I have started walking again, playing more and doing more around the house on the weekend .... I know it will take time .. just fear running into a the same mental issues that have plagued/derailed me in the past. ...perceptions .. other and my own are a big part of it along with obviously missing a few key pieces and parts of the puzzle here and there. ....
    04/23/2012 Max Weight : 448 lbs
    01/01/2014 Initial Weight : 428 lbs
    12/31/2014 Current weight : 318 lbs
    12/31/2015 Goal weight : 208 lbs

  7. #67
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    You don't have to go to failure on a regular basis so you need a spotter. You will still make excellent progress. Right now they're not looking at you. One of these days they will sit up and notice. Count on it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigChris View Post
    I tent to WAY WAY over think over analyze most everything; but then I'm an analyst/programmer by profession - works great with computers suck with people

    and I'm doing it ..... I have the gym membership again, have been back to eating primal for 6 weeks, feeling better (not sure how much I've lost the 445 was at last doc visit in may and my home scale starts at 400 but registers if I lean a little so I know I'm close) I have started walking again, playing more and doing more around the house on the weekend .... I know it will take time .. just fear running into a the same mental issues that have plagued/derailed me in the past. ...perceptions .. other and my own are a big part of it along with obviously missing a few key pieces and parts of the puzzle here and there. ....
    just keep up the good work and ignore what stupid people have to say.

  9. #69
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    I still don't know what you're looking for, Big Chris. I acknowledged from the outset that big people tend to be stronger than small people. You're not super strong, but you're far ahead of a chronically skinny person. Take advantage of it.

    On the other hand, if somebody's telling you to eat your way up to 600 pounds to get stronger, they're insane and should be dismissed outright. I'm not telling you that. Mark Rippetoe's not telling you that.

    If you're just frustrated that nobody gives you credit for being strong, but rather sees you as an overweight person, look at the example I gave you before. That Iranian dude is a national hero. Nobody tells him to go on a diet when they see him walking down the street, as you claimed. They're too busy asking him for autographs or doing whatever the Iranian woman's equivalent of flashing their boobies happens to be (maybe flashing their ankles?).

    You're too big and you're not strong enough. I'm too little and I'm not strong enough. The solution is the same. Get stronger. Eat in a way that encourages our respective bodyweights to move in the appropriate direction. In the meantime, if you just want to be pissed off that I probably get laid more, use it as motivation. That's all I got for you, big fella.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post

    But he doesn't want to be judged on relative strength. Or told that he's less fit than I. He wants us to acknowledge that as a big guy, he has some modicum of absolute strength. And he is right about that, but it doesn't really do much for him, because if he has to pick up something that weighs a couple hundred pounds, he can't do it and I can.
    What BigChris needs is to compare a DEXA scan of his body to another guy who CAN squat heavy. That will show him the difference between a big guy and a big STRONG guy.

    Also, I'd be willing to say he has a measure of absolute strength that is not worthless if he could go for a 10 mile hike with thousands of feet of elevation gain and keep up with me or be faster than me. A big STRONG guy could do this. I've met a few.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

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