Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 105

Thread: I wish Mark (or someone else) writes a response to this... page 9

  1. #81
    noodletoy's Avatar
    noodletoy is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    land of the glass pinecones
    Posts
    3,324
    i'm of italian descent and giving up pasta and bread was a HUGE step for me. as i said, i didn't "think" they were making me sick so that wasn't the motivator.

    however, going low-carb meant i didn't have to try to subsist on 1200 calories and be starving all the time, so i did it.

    honestly? you make your clients sound like simpletons.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  2. #82
    noodletoy's Avatar
    noodletoy is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    land of the glass pinecones
    Posts
    3,324
    i guess i'm not clear on why you condone this form of empty calories over another? like candy or soda?
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  3. #83
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    i'm of italian descent and giving up pasta and bread was a HUGE step for me. as i said, i didn't "think" they were making me sick so that wasn't the motivator.

    however, going low-carb meant i didn't have to try to subsist on 1200 calories and be starving all the time, so i did it.

    honestly? you make your clients sound like simpletons.
    Honestly, enough people fail diets because of adherence issues. That's great that you've succeeded, but there are people who have a much harder time, surely you understand this. If someone has no reason to eliminate something from their diet, they enjoy eating it, and it's not having a negative impact on their ability to reach their goals, why bother eliminating it.

    Insulting the intelligence of people you don't know is a bit childish, don't you think?
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  4. #84
    noodletoy's Avatar
    noodletoy is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    land of the glass pinecones
    Posts
    3,324
    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Honestly, enough people fail diets because of adherence issues. That's great that you've succeeded, but there are people who have a much harder time, surely you understand this. If someone has no reason to eliminate something from their diet, they enjoy eating it, and it's not having a negative impact on their ability to reach their goals, why bother eliminating it.

    Insulting the intelligence of people you don't know is a bit childish, don't you think?
    you're the one telling us that they can't handle the info that grains may be bad -- that they just get stressed and confused. i'm actually suggesting it's you not giving them enough credit.

    again...

    putting aside the gluten issue, WHY encourage them to continue eating the empty calories? people enjoy marshmallow peeps and shamrock shakes too.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  5. #85
    noodletoy's Avatar
    noodletoy is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    land of the glass pinecones
    Posts
    3,324
    people fail at low-cal dieting because it is not sustainable. it's simply not enough food.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  6. #86
    Neckhammer's Avatar
    Neckhammer is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    8,066
    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Honestly, enough people fail diets because of adherence issues. That's great that you've succeeded, but there are people who have a much harder time, surely you understand this. If someone has no reason to eliminate something from their diet, they enjoy eating it, and it's not having a negative impact on their ability to reach their goals, why bother eliminating it.

    Insulting the intelligence of people you don't know is a bit childish, don't you think?
    Well you say IF someone has no reason to eliminate. There may not be one TOE (theory of everything), but there are several hypothesis about how and why grain consumption in western culture contributes to weight gain and obesity. Some of them implicate satiety, some are food reward based, and of course there is the alternative hypothesis. You can probably poke holes in each, but IMO the likely truth is a subtle combination of them all. So yes eliminating wheat may be tough to start, but I do think it makes the subsequent caloric restriction quite a bit easier through other mechanisms including the fact that choosing higher nutrient density foods would positively impact your satiation and reduce your reliance on "self control".

  7. #87
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    you're the one telling us that they can't handle the info that grains may be bad -- that they just get stressed and confused. i'm actually suggesting it's you not giving them enough credit.

    again...

    putting aside the gluten issue, WHY encourage them to continue eating the empty calories? people enjoy marshmallow peeps and shamrock shakes too.
    It is stressful and confusing to have to worry about completely eliminating something that has been a staple of the diet for a long period of time. Aside from the fact that there is not enough research to say that grains are bad for those who aren't intolerant, why even worry about getting rid of it. You're not getting my point here at all. There's literally no point to eliminate something if it's not a problem. None whatsoever. I like to keep things simple and easy, is this a bad thing?

    Where did I say that I encourage them to eat empty calories? Unless you're assuming that grains are empty calories. In this case, you're wrong. Grains are not empty calories at all.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  8. #88
    jakejoh10's Avatar
    jakejoh10 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    882
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Well you say IF someone has no reason to eliminate. There may not be one TOE (theory of everything), but there are several hypothesis about how and why grain consumption in western culture contributes to weight gain and obesity. Some of them implicate satiety, some are food reward based, and of course there is the alternative hypothesis. You can probably poke holes in each, but IMO the likely truth is a subtle combination of them all. So yes eliminating wheat may be tough to start, but I do think it makes the subsequent caloric restriction quite a bit easier through other mechanisms including the fact that choosing higher nutrient density foods would positively impact your satiation and reduce your reliance on "self control".
    There are also "hypotheses" that grains are beneficial and can have cardioprotective effects that cannot be ignored if you're going to look at this issue from an unbiased perspective.

    As for your second point, as I've said, if there's an issue in which they cannot control their intake (which is fairly rare if the diet is flexible from the beginning), there's no reason to eliminate these foods, especially if the person enjoys them. Protein remains high no matter what, and protein is more filling than fat and carbohydrates, so satiation is hardly an issue.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

  9. #89
    magicmerl's Avatar
    magicmerl is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,218
    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    There are also "hypotheses" that grains are beneficial and can have cardioprotective effects that cannot be ignored if you're going to look at this issue from an unbiased perspective.
    Have you read the actual studies?

    I've read a few and ALL of them have shown that 'healthy whole grains' are good when compared to refined white flour. Whole grains are good because they stop you wating whtie bread. That's EXACTLY the same as saying that filtered cigarettes protect you from lung cancer because they are scientifically proven to be better for you than unfiltered cigarettes (and, they are). The 'news articles' that summarise the 'science' are so wrong it's almost laughable.

    I'm happy to be pointed at some scientific papers that show different conclusions. All I'm saying that when I've gone to the source I haven't been convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    As for your second point, as I've said, if there's an issue in which they cannot control their intake (which is fairly rare if the diet is flexible from the beginning), there's no reason to eliminate these foods, especially if the person enjoys them. Protein remains high no matter what, and protein is more filling than fat and carbohydrates, so satiation is hardly an issue.
    Getting off topic here, but if satiation is the goal, then isn't low(er) carb the best way to do that? Since it's carbs that evade your satiation mechanisms..... (p.s. I am NOT a low carb advocate)
    Last edited by magicmerl; 06-24-2013 at 07:08 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    N/A
    Posts
    981
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Why don't people apply the same logic to dairy? The consensus is that if you tolerate it, it's fine, eat as much as you want. But if you tolerate grains fine it doesn't matter, they're still killing you slowly. Neither are essential and can be problematic for certain people but that doesn't mean everyone should avoid them.

Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •