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  1. #71
    eKatherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    I feel fine, my bloodwork is fine, and I know plenty of others who are the same. I'm not going to live my life restricting food that I enjoy just because there's a slight possibility that it could maybe, possibly cause some inflammation in the future. I'm sorry, but as things are going, I'm doing just fine, and I will continue to enjoy eating what I enjoy eating without regret.

    I guess I'm weird, but that's my approach.
    We're not really trying to convince you to restrict your intake of anything. Like, go for it. We're trying to convince you to stop trying to convince other people not to try for themselves, or even just to consider the possibility. When you say that only a tiny portion of the public is gluten intolerant/celiac/allergic and that's 7-10%, that's 30 million people, people who constantly hear that hardly anybody can't eat wheat, most people who do stop eating wheat are doing it because it makes them feel "special", and wheat is an important part of everyone's diet and a good source of protein and other nutrition.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    That's awesome. The problem is that your situation doesn't apply to everyone. So if you were to tell someone who is healthy to cut out carbs completely because it worked for you, it could cause some issues. Low-carb diets are certainly not for everyone.

    It's all about individualization.
    My situation, that giving up gluten results in resolution of symptoms seemingly unrelated to digestion, is very common, as is having such symptoms and being unaware that they could be caused by gluten. A lifetime of canker sores? Gone. Inflamed gums? Gone. Insomnia? Gone.

    Did the dentist or the orthopedic surgeon suggest I should consider the possibility? No. I might be in a wheelchair and 150 pounds overweight right now if I hadn't figured it out with no help from the medical establishment.

    I gave up carbs for 2 days because I'd been eating too much of them. Tons of artisan bread and kamut pilaf. I thought the problem was too much carbs, but it wasn't. Why would I tell people to go VLC?
    Last edited by eKatherine; 06-24-2013 at 04:57 PM.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    That's awesome. The problem is that your situation doesn't apply to everyone. The problem is, I think that many more people are intolerent to gluten than is currently diagnosed. So if you were to tell someone who is healthy to cut out carbs completely because it worked for you, it could cause some issues. You keep confusing this as a low carb issue. It is not. It's a 'wheat is bad for you' issue. Low-carb diets are certainly not for everyone. I agree.

    It's all about individualization.
    I agree that everyone has to find what works for them too, since everyone has their own set of hormone levels and gut bacteria, they will react differently to different things. I still think that wheat basically isn't good for anyone, any more than a cigarette is.
    I have not once said that you're not better off eating "more nutritious" food. I'm saying it comes down to personal preference.
    I guess it's my personal preference to eat more nutritious food then......
    If someone wants to eat grains, for whatever reason, then they can definitely be part of a healthy diet. McDonalds.... This is where everyone disagrees with me.

    Again, it's all dose-specific, and it's all about context. For example, of course sugar is bad for you if you consume it in excess. But is sugar toxic in small amounts among a balanced diet? Absolutely not (sorry Dr. Lustig). So I'm going to keep saying it: it comes down to the overall context of the diet, and in my opinion, grains are not evil in every situation.
    Yes, I agree that the dose makes the poison. A couple of months ago we had people over for lunch and they brought over a chocolatey cake thing for dessert. And we ate it. It was delicious.

    I also agree with you that some of the fears of wheat are likely incorrect (I still think that anti-oxidants are good for you, for example).
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Low-carb diets are certainly not for everyone.
    avoiding grains doesn't automatically = low-carb.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  4. #74
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    I have to wonder about the intent of your original post. Was it simply to tell those of us whose bodies can't deal with grains that we are delusional?

    Eat all the grains you want. Hopefully you won't pay for it one day as many of us have. But stop trying to convince others that intolerance to grains is a rare thing b/c it isn't.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
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  5. #75
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    Guys, I'm not confusing the grain issue with a low carb issue, I only brought up carbs again because eKatherine brought up her story about carbs (randomly, I must say) and it made me go on a tangent.

    I understand that there are people who don't know they are gluten intolerant. I get it. But, when trying to help someone adjust their diet, bring up the fact that they might be allergic to something even though they are asymptomatic only causes excess stress and confusion.
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  6. #76
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    OK, putting aside my qualms about future health concerns. We just wanna look good naked and we have no immediate reaction to gluten. BTW I started eating paleo even though I have no health concerns, not overweight, and no digestive issues. So this hypothetical could be me. Alright so we just got 15 vanity pounds to lose and maybe start some strength training. The only person I've seen make an argument FOR grains besides you was the guy that wanted to get MORE calories and carbs in after a 36 hour fast. This doesn't sound like a strategy for weight loss. In a caloric deficit we all can agree that protein matters. Every calorie really does have to count if you are eating at a substantial deficit and grains really don't have much to offer. You wanna dirty bulk? Grab some pizza. But if your leaning out I can't see any logical reason to include grains in the strategy. Your assuming that the client will only adhere to a diet that includes grains. Sounds like someone not willing to make the changes necessary to succeed regardless of if you give em grains or not. Really though I'm not trying to convince you. Except you seem to train people and I would like to see this info get out to more people. Oh, and the gluten free market is crap. I'm not saying turn them all into gluten free cake eaters.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-24-2013 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    I have to wonder about the intent of your original post. Was it simply to tell those of us whose bodies can't deal with grains that we are delusional?

    Eat all the grains you want. Hopefully you won't pay for it one day as many of us have. But stop trying to convince others that intolerance to grains is a rare thing b/c it isn't.
    If you're going to accuse me of something, give evidence.

    I have not once used the word "delusional", I have not once tried to convince others of anything. I've laid out the facts and the research that we have right now along with some of my personal experience. I haven't been disrespectful at any point, I'm just trying to have a healthy debate on a controversial issue. Is this a bad thing?
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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Every calorie really does have to count if you are eating at a substantial deficit and grains really don't have much to offer. You wanna dirty bulk? Grab some pizza. But if your leaning out I can't see any logical reason to include grains in the strategy. Your assuming that the client will only adhere to a diet that includes grains. Sounds like someone not willing to make the changes necessary to succeed regardless of if you give em grains or not.
    But, for body composition reasons, you haven't given a reason not to include them. The possible health issues aside, if someone likes to eat grains, I'm not going to stop them, as long as it's not negatively affecting calorie balance and/or macronutrient goals. Why add excess stress and confusion?
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  9. #79
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    fwiw, i gave up grains because i went low-carb to lose weight. it was many months before i made the connection to my improved overall health and being grain-free. now for me it's a given.

    if, as you say, your clients mostly just wanna look good naked than cutting out bread and pasta would be a no-brainer. not because gluten sucks but because they're empty calories that need to be slathered in fat to taste like anything at all. who eats a plate of just boiled plain spaghetti? the carb + fat combo piles on the pounds and the fat.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  10. #80
    jakejoh10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    if, as you say, your clients mostly just wanna look good naked than cutting out bread and pasta would be a no-brainer. not because gluten sucks but because they're empty calories that need to be slathered in fat to taste like anything at all. who eats a plate of just boiled plain spaghetti? the carb + fat combo piles on the pounds and the fat.
    But that is a rather large assumption to make. Say, just as a hypothetical, you have an Italian dude who loves to eat pasta, but wants to lose some weight. Would I tell him to stop eating pasta? No way. I would ensure that his portion sizes are moderate and that they fit the calorie and macronutrient goals. Would I go low carb with this person? Again, probably not, because it would be difficult to get them to adhere to the diet without them breaking and going on an all out binge.

    If calories and macronutrients are kept in check, and the person's portion sizes are under control, then I cannot see a good reason why I would stop someone from eating something they love to eat.
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