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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Please expand on what you're getting at here.
    Hmmm. Oh, just that I listed my reasons on page one and that doesn't even take carb load or insulin spikes into consideration.

    The poster I quoted was making the assumption (it seemed to me) that the biggest concern or complaint about grains where these things. He phrased his response in a way that argued for grains in the context of NEEDING that insulin spike and carb load to fill glycogen stores. I see this whole line of discussion (carb load and insulin spiking) as irrelevant to the topic at hand. Carbs and subsequent insulin spikes are not specific to grains alone and IMO aren't worth discussing in the context of "why should I avoid grains".

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Carbs and subsequent insulin spikes are not specific to grains alone and IMO aren't worth discussing in the context of "why should I avoid grains".
    Oh ok. I agree.
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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Carbs are necessary to fuel intense activity, they can be protein sparing in the instance of a caloric deficit, they taste good (and therefore are great for adherence to the diet), they replenish glycogen stores (which, again, are needed to fuel intense activity).

    Not really sure what you're trying to say, maybe you could re-phrase?
    The OP was talking specifically about grains, not carbs in general.

    I personally think that I'd rather get energy from other sources like fat, or carbs like potatoes, bananas etc than bread.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    The OP was talking specifically about grains, not carbs in general.

    I personally think that I'd rather get energy from other sources like fat, or carbs like potatoes, bananas etc than bread.
    You said carbs in the post that I was responding to.

    And that's your personal preference. If someone who I'm giving dietary advice adheres to a diet better when their carb sources are predominantly grains, and they don't have a gluten issue, I'm not going to tell them to stop eating grains. It's about the context of the diet and the individual situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    You said carbs in the post that I was responding to.

    And that's your personal preference. If someone who I'm giving dietary advice adheres to a diet better then their carb sources are predominantly grains, and they don't have a gluten issue, I'm not going to tell them to stop eating grains. It's about the context of the diet and the individual situation.
    Given the insidious onset of gluten related symptoms and issues associated with wheat consumption in the western world what sort of procedures would you set in place to determine who should vs should not consume them then? And would there be ongoing monitoring for future development of intolerance? Would you be recommending certain grains over others and would you promote a certain way of preparing them? Those are some of the issues I think anyone even considering wheat/grain consumption need to answer.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Given the insidious onset of gluten related symptoms and issues associated with wheat consumption in the western world what sort of procedures would you set in place to determine who should vs should not consume them then? And would there be ongoing monitoring for future development of intolerance? Would you be recommending certain grains over others and would you promote a certain way of preparing them? Those are some of the issues I think anyone even considering wheat/grain consumption need to answer.
    As I've mentioned several times earlier, the elimination method is usually pretty effective, if the person is even worried about the gluten issue. For someone trying to lose fat, for simplicity sake, the less refined is obviously better. Other than that, as long as calorie and macronutrient totals are under control (this is highly individual), it doesn't matter.

    This is from a body composition standpoint, helping someone lose fat. Most of the time, fat loss = better health markers. I don't get obsessive with the gluten issue unless the person is worried that it might be a problem.
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    Ah, well that would be why we have different perspectives. My main focus with people isn't necessarily body comp. Thats just a side effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    You said carbs in the post that I was responding to.
    Yes, which was itself a response to "Comparing protein sources to a carbohydrate source, in terms of overall nutrition and physiological effects on the body, is foolish."

    I still think that the point choco was making (eat nutritious whole foods like say salmon instead of flour) is a good one.

    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    And that's your personal preference. If someone who I'm giving dietary advice adheres to a diet better when their carb sources are predominantly grains, and they don't have a gluten issue, I'm not going to tell them to stop eating grains. It's about the context of the diet and the individual situation.
    I agree, although I think that the population at large's issues with wheat are much greater than just 'celiac or not'.

    I think that there's a whole spectrum of problems wheat brings, and it provides nothing indispensible, so it's easy to jettison from your diet if you are only considering a nutritional perspective.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Ah, well that would be why we have different perspectives. My main focus with people isn't necessarily body comp.
    But the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Like I said, health markers generally improve as body composition improves, assuming you're not getting into the lower levels of body fat.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    I still think that the point choco was making (eat nutritious whole foods like say salmon instead of flour) is a good one.
    This is like the people who say calories are not all created equal, then going on to compare 3,000 calories of sugar vs. 3,000 calories of broccoli. The comparison is way out of context, which makes it a bit ridiculous.
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