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  1. #11
    L0kI's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel
    Thanks Carbdodger... I appreciate your thoughts. So, can I ask which veggies would be ideal to eat during this period of stomach irritation? I understand broccoli, cabbage, brussels, cauliflower may not be ideal now... but what should I eat to keep it calm?

    I'll also abandon the potassium for now and stick with the Zinc and Mg... I can re-introduce later when my tummy feels better and see if it irritates.

  2. #12
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    What is the reason for that then? Sorry, it's very hard to assess things when always getting conflicting information (not your fault, this is how nutrition science seems to work)... I can only try one or two things at a time if I hope to be able to assess anything with any reasonable certainty. So I've been trying what I see as the basic core diet that seems to be advocated around here (obviously everyone's approach varies slightly, or notably). Anyway, I think it might be the best approach to first try to work within that paradigm before full-on switching gears and going heavy potatoes all the sudden when the prevailing opinion around here seems to be that tubers etc are not ideal b/c of the starch/sugar (or b/c potatoes are nightshades etc). That does not mean I'm unwilling to entertain the idea that what you suggest may be true, I just feel that 2.5 weeks into this, if I all the sudden switch to something that I see as quite different, I wouldn't really have given this a chance to work. Does that make sense?

  3. #13
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    i'm not really the best advisor on veggies as I'm doing VLC.
    I did have IBS though (hence my knowledge of amitriptyline) and had to avoid broccoli, cabbage, brussels, cauliflower and onions. try replacing onions with spring onions, I found swede(rutabaga) and carrots really good (soothing for the tummy actually) .mushrooms i also find good but slice them
    Derpamix has a less conventional stance on primal but is correct on starches-you can eat occasional sweet potato and potato- they might make the transition easier. check Marks advice here Primal Blueprint Shopping List | Mark's Daily Apple
    to be honest though just cutting the volume a bit with each meal will probably help- as a vegie you were probably used to veg clearing the gut quickly but fatty meats change that; it might even be worth eating a salad plate starter then the meat course with just a little veg accompaniment.
    the transition period is the hardest and when you already have a problem (I do too) it makes it more complex.
    remember though this isn't a diet as such and doesn't have to be 100% perfect right away- give yourself wiggle room and fine tune it to your body and your needs

    you might want to consider a probiotic too
    When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
    27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
    new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

  4. #14
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    I agree, try cutting back on the veggies, not necessarily eliminate, see what happens......

  5. #15
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    Thanks again! I will try to do that... I definitely do eat large volumes, so I'll try to keep the volume of the more offensive ones down. Are leafy greens still ok or may they bother me as well? I love rutabaga and turnip, but alas, not a huge carrot fan, but I can shred them. I've cut down a lot on the potatoes, but I still have one or two small ones/wk. And added in a sweet potato here and there even though they aren't something that's ever been a staple in my diet, it seems people think they're notably better than potatoes.

    Okay, so I'll try to moderate intake of these more offensive veggies... does cooking them help? I just made a tomato sauce with a tonne of ground beef, sweet peppers, white onions and fresh garlic... but it's been well stewed/simmered, will that make it easier on my stomach or should I avoid this type of thing.

    One last question, and I know you don't KNOW the answer, but I'd appreciate your thoughts... if this irritation is the effect of these veggies, do you think it's a matter of needing to heal my stomach (ie, temporary) or that these things will always cause irritation?

  6. #16
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    Vegetables that are fruit and vegetables from underground tend to be less offensive, especially if you cook them. Cooking starts breaking down the food, makes it easier to digest, and breaks down some of the more offensive compounds that they do have.

    There's no way to know for certain which are permanent problems and which just need healing without removing them for a while and then adding them back in. I used to have issues with bananas and squash seeds. I can eat bananas again but squash seeds are still hard on my gut.

  7. #17
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    I had serious IBS and it's associated ills. Here's the effects of Marks PB on me:

    The diseases for which I came to PB, looking for a cure:
    1. The tendency or desire to vomit while or after eating was gone in 2 days. (GERD)
    2. The heavy gastric production of mucus which caused drooling in sleep was gone in 1 week
    3. The IBS-C gas and water bloating was 90% gone in 2 weeks. (IBS)
    4. At 3 weeks I began taking Milk of Magnesia every other day instead of every day.
    5. At 4 weeks the ability to control urine outflow returned (I'd been afraid I'd have to wear diapers.)
    6. After 5 weeks my completely dead bowel began working again. Peristalsis returned.
    7. At 6 weeks I began taking Vits. D3 and C (mainly to prevent hair loss) and Magnesium Citrate (800 mg) to soften my stools.
    8. At 7 weeks I bought Mark's Damage Control Package (vitamins and minerals). I'd already been taking prebiotics and probiotics, etc.
    8. At 8 weeks my ‘bleeder’ condition ceased. All the permanent indigo bruises on my arms started going away, and I no longer bled continuously when my skin was torn or pierced.

    At 2.5 months my stools are softer now but I’m still constipated. But some IBS remains at the best of days, and on the worst, after 2-3 days of no Milk of Magnesia (MOM) is really bad and painful. Also the process of moving water from my stomach to my bladder is very slow, about 8 hours. So although I was trying to extend the time inbetween MOM, as soon as I was constipated (any straining at all needed), I'd take MOM that evening.

    At 3 months I started reading Fiber Menace and added Potassium. At 4 months I was down to MOM every 4-5 days and had finished reading Fiber Menace. That is a fantastic book that everyone here should read. During this month I was experiementing with how much Potassium I needed, cutting capsules or tablets in half. At 4.25 months I declared complete success. No more MOM needed. (Also I've become one of those nuts who examine their stools daily to see how things are going. Sure never thought I'd do that.)
    - - - - - - - - - - -

    It doesn't sound like you're nearly this bad. It doesn't say above, but I started taking probiotic capsules before every meal and highly recommend this as the basic cure. Later I added pre-biotics (sauerkraut, kim chi, yogurt, kefir, etc.)

    As for potassium, if you're eating green leaves (about 3 large / day, raw or cooked) you're getting plenty of potassium so don't take any more. Read The Primal Blueprint and Mark's shopping list. The Mg is good. Eat a few brazil nuts (2) / day.

    My foods were approx.

    B - 2 bacon, 2 eggs, salt, pepper, tumeric, 2 cups coffee w 1/2 & /12.
    L - 1.5 cup chopped greens sauteed in coconut oil with 1 slice chopped anchovy, 1/2 can tuna fish, 1 sliced turnip raw w salt, handful macademia nuts, 1 cup Greek yogurt.
    D - Liver & onions, brussel sprouts, salt & pepper, Handfull of chocolate chips.
    ---

    B - 2 eggs, salt, pepper, tumeric, 2 cups coffee w 1/2 & /12, 2 oz goat cheese (I'm out of bacon)
    L - Sauerkraut, Salami, 1 Greek Yogurt
    D - Red Snapper, Califlower, asparagus.
    - --

    Include fish and meat daily. Any roots and leaves are good (no American potatoes, they're nightshades). I eat around 100 - 150 g carbs / day.
    Last edited by Cryptocode; 06-22-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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  8. #18
    CarbDodger's Avatar
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    in reverse order
    I think its the transition- don't underestimate the amount of change your doing- removing grain is a massive change on its own.
    i think a lot of us have eaten low fat for so long we have lost the awareness of how fat changes digestion iewhy we stay fuller.
    i'm not eating a vast amount of veggies but I eat my 50g worth and i now eat cauli, broccoli,sprouts onion and cabbage- i love them all and had to avoid them for years.
    when things settle down gradually reintroduce them.
    generally leafy green are good
    try mashing carrot with rutabaga and turnip- I love this 3 root mash with beef,pork and chicken

    the sauce should be fine -onions reduce to almost nothing so although they can contribute to wind they aren't bulky or hard to digest
    When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
    27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
    new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by L0kI View Post
    Hi all,
    I wanted to get your thoughts/recos for my current stomach issues.
    I've been doing a primal diet for nearly 3 weeks (zero grains, no sugar or processed foods, still a small amount of dairy - usually hard cheese, butter or cream in my coffee 1x/d). I've been eating a lot of meat, and fattier meats than I've ever been used to, eggs, tonnes of veggies and some fruit (maybe 2-3x fruit/day).
    For the first week, my stomach felt better than it had in years, finally no gas or bloating, no discomfort after every single meal... (Perhaps it finally had a break from grains). But later in the second week I started to experience some GI distress... It's slightly irritated regularly and then gets more irritated after I eat... A little bit if gas and a few sharp pains, and just generally noisey and irritated. The other thing that changed in the second week was that I started taking some Zn (50mg), Mg (300mg), D (1000IU) and the past three days, some potassium (50mg 2x/day). I try to take most of the minerals with meals b/c I know I have a sensitive stomach.
    I also take Welbutrin (300mg) and amytryptalene (10mg) daily, but I'm trying to reduce the amytryptalene (it's for Fibro).
    Just wondering about your thoughts... Would my stomach be healing and thus hurt or does that not make sense? If it was grains that had been bothering it and now they're gone, why is it still hurting? I thought I would be feeling better.
    Before I started this, I always seemed to feel stress in my stomach and it would bother me more close to my period...
    Anyway, thoughts...?
    Where is the pain located on the abdomen?

    Above the belly button? On the midline below the sternum and xyphoid process? On either the right or left side near or below the ribs?

    Below the belly button? Lower left or right quadrant?

    Are you eating most of your veggies raw?

    Any constipation or diarrhea?

  10. #20
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    You could look in to FODMAPS, frutcose intolerance, or GAPS for gut healing.

    Going paleo helped my gut, but not enough. My doctor put me on a combo of probiotics, Betaine HCL, and digestive enzymes. So far, they have dramatically reduced almost all of my GI issues.
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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