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Thread: people who eat wheat seem to be doing fine! page 7

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauerKraut View Post
    Seriously, some of you wheat-o-phobic should spend a few days in Paris and pay attention at how much "wheat" they eat and yet are able to walk just fine wirhout crawling from the stomach pain.
    Before anyone answers "yeah but the baguette is nothing like that processed crap we have in america" = you are proving my point.
    I spent 23 years of my life in France, not just "spent a few days in Paris". You don't know what you are talking about.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkJames View Post
    I spent 23 years of my life in France, not just "spent a few days in Paris". You don't know what you are talking about.
    Wow, France is cool. What's your point?

  3. #63
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    @sauerKraut
    No harm man, I was not defending France against your argument (which would mean I had misunderstood you). I was referring to what you said re wheat. France is full of chronically ill people, and the French side of my family is plagued by chronic illnesses ranging from early arthritis, blood pressure issues, obesity, IBS, etc. They NEVER EVER made the link between wheat and health. They are told repeatedly that eating baguettes every day, especially for men, is a real healthy thing to do. Kids are plagued with obesity, some have had IBS since very early in their life, chronic colds, allergies, etc. French people in general are NOT healthy. They depend on medications like drug addicts. My mom has to ingest an army of pills every single day, some to counteract side-effects of other pills ... it is INSANE.

    The only redeeming property of a baguette (save for its amazing taste ... when you are addicted to wheat) is that it is full of air ... When I was a kid, I could not be sent to buy the daily baguette, I would eat most of it on the way back. That's how addictive the shit is. Before turning primal, I would have orgies of croissants and "pains au chocolat" at every vacation there. I would feel like super crappy but would blame something else (bad nights, sea food, whatever, but never the bread). Guess what ? when I stopped wheat, I stopped experiencing this super crappy feeling. And I am talking about French wheat, even organic spelt which I thought was healthy ... My friends there always complained about brain fog, fatigue, lethargy at work, etc. They think that eating a salmon sandwich with some lettuce leaves and low fat mayonnaise is healthy, and yet they feel like shit. I told some of them: maybe you should remove the bread instead of using low fat mayo. They think I am weird now ... but anyway, the image of health you can experience when on vacation there does not mean people are healthy. In fact, I could drive you to parts of France that would probably scare you ...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    No they haven't. Who, when and where?
    Barnard and Dean ornish have documented reversal of diabetes and heart disease. Both groups were encouraged to consume whole grains.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkJames View Post
    @sauerKraut
    No harm man, I was not defending France against your argument (which would mean I had misunderstood you). I was referring to what you said re wheat. France is full of chronically ill people, and the French side of my family is plagued by chronic illnesses ranging from early arthritis, blood pressure issues, obesity, IBS, etc. They NEVER EVER made the link between wheat and health. They are told repeatedly that eating baguettes every day, especially for men, is a real healthy thing to do. Kids are plagued with obesity, some have had IBS since very early in their life, chronic colds, allergies, etc. French people in general are NOT healthy. They depend on medications like drug addicts. My mom has to ingest an army of pills every single day, some to counteract side-effects of other pills ... it is INSANE.

    The only redeeming property of a baguette (save for its amazing taste ... when you are addicted to wheat) is that it is full of air ... When I was a kid, I could not be sent to buy the daily baguette, I would eat most of it on the way back. That's how addictive the shit is. Before turning primal, I would have orgies of croissants and "pains au chocolat" at every vacation there. I would feel like super crappy but would blame something else (bad nights, sea food, whatever, but never the bread). Guess what ? when I stopped wheat, I stopped experiencing this super crappy feeling. And I am talking about French wheat, even organic spelt which I thought was healthy ... My friends there always complained about brain fog, fatigue, lethargy at work, etc. They think that eating a salmon sandwich with some lettuce leaves and low fat mayonnaise is healthy, and yet they feel like shit. I told some of them: maybe you should remove the bread instead of using low fat mayo. They think I am weird now ... but anyway, the image of health you can experience when on vacation there does not mean people are healthy. In fact, I could drive you to parts of France that would probably scare you ...
    Hey man, thanks for explaining that. I'm actually surprised, I have never lived in France, but I spent enough time in Paris and have a lot of parisians friends, and that was not my experience at all. Granted, Paris is probably not a good case study for the health situation across France, just like Manhattan isn't for the US, and that I tend to know younger people. Still, I lived my whole life in Switzerland and Italy and people are not nearly as plagued by diseases as in the US. Obesity in Switzerland is the exception, not the rule, and people are generally healthy. One thing you notice though, is that the people that tend to be and look unhealthy are generally immigrants (and there are lots of refugees from war-zones in Switzerland). Which in my opinion tells you that stress has a much bigger role in someone's health, much more so than the type of food that you eat.

    Edit: I forgot, I agree with your second paragraph. Giving up bread was good for me as well. But I can't deny that a lot of my friends eat bread and pasta and have no issues with them. Especially not digestive issues. Plus, you have to consider the social aspect too....in some places where wheat is so ingrained (no pun intended ) in the culture, it will cause a great deal of worry for someone to give it up, especially people with an active social life. And it's not a big step from worry, to anxiety, social isolation, and depression.
    Last edited by sauerKraut; 06-24-2013 at 02:14 AM.

  6. #66
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    @sauerKraut

    That's the problem with wheat, it can take many years before the image of health disappears. Many of my relatives don't age very well. And the other problem (confounding vars) is that modern wheat is the worst, it is a wheat strain I had not experienced as a kid but as a grown-up. So my later health issues are now experienced by younger people. If you stick to older strains of wheat and home-made stuff, you will definitely not be as affected. But now, this modern crap is ubiquitous, in all processed foods which by convenience and acculturation (US influence mostly) have become a staple. The 2 hour lunch with nutritious traditional foods is a thing of the past ... Just 30 years ago, breakfast cereals and daily coca-cola were unheard of home at home. The only soda I would have once in a while was orangina (not necessarily better though but it was made-in-France damn'it! )

    But you know, wheat is one thing, but when combined with shit fat, bad milk and tons of refined sugar ... you get the picture ... You should have seen the "street kids" I used to manage in poor neighborhoods (I used to help social workers during my spare time in my early 20's): I brought some to a real animal farm with sheep, cows, etc. I had to explain to them that the meat they see in the supermarkets mostly come from animals like those. We tasted real honey, raw milk, butter, etc. They thought it tasted off. I would ask them what they preferred: cookies, candies, sodas, chips, cheap crap junk that their parents could only afford. There was a gap of maybe 15 years between me and them, we're talking about the mid-90's.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    Barnard and Dean ornish have documented reversal of diabetes and heart disease. Both groups were encouraged to consume whole grains.
    Is the study they did where they also got them to stop all processed foods, eat whole foods, stop smoking, do some exercise, meditate, reduce stress, sleep more, fresh air, massages, group therapy etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaceyUK View Post
    Many young people smoke cigarettes with no ill effects. This illustrates the point you are trying to make.
    Yup, and there are always stories of Uncle Joe who smoked like a chimney and lived to be 95.
    And stories of people dying of lung cancer before they hit 65. (family member)

    Life is just complicated.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoveSleep View Post
    Is the study they did where they also got them to stop all processed foods, eat whole foods, stop smoking, do some exercise, meditate, reduce stress, sleep more, fresh air, massages, group therapy etc?
    With the diabetes trials no. If you're talking about the Ornish heart disease trial then yes, but what's that got to do whether they ate a lot of whole grains or not?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaceyUK View Post
    Many young people smoke cigarettes with no ill effects. This illustrates the point you are trying to make.
    You're seriously comparing wheat to cigarettes? Goodness, this is too much.

    I don't want to be "that guy" who argues with everyone (seemingly this is what's happening in another thread), but this is borderline crazy talk.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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