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Thread: people who eat wheat seem to be doing fine! page 10

  1. #91
    Omni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    The study that showed polyunsaturated margarine's are bad for you? I wouldn't disagree with that at all.
    How on earth does that show butter is protective. Show me a study where people reversed heart disease by being encouraged to eat butter.
    Why don't you instead show us how reliable Esselstyn's conclusions really were and show how wheat was the primary intervention that reversed heart disease?

    Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Caldwell B. Esselstyn - Weston A Price Foundation

    Esselstyn ran a five-year trial in which he put heart disease patients on his diet, treating them with cholesterol-lowering drugs if necessary to bring their cholesterol down to 150 mg/ dL.6 There was no control group. Twenty-two percent of those who began the intervention dropped out of the study within the first two years; thirty-five percent of those who completed it did not submit to the follow-up analysis of their cardiovascular health; of the twenty-two patients who began the trial, only eleven remained in the final analysis. Of these eleven, occlusion of the blood vessels became better in five, stayed the same in one, and became worse in four.

    Despite the inconsistent results, the average change in the width of the blood vessels was an increase in 0.08 millimeters. This represents an apparent reversal of atherosclerosis—on average. Likewise, on average, the degree to which blood vessels were constricted decreased by seven percentage points. Six of the eleven dropped out of the study after the first five years; in the following five years, there were ten heart attacks among the six that dropped out while there were none among the five who remained on the program.

    Since there was no control group and there was such a high drop-out rate, it is difficult to make much sense of the study. Did the people drop out because their health was not important to them? Or did they drop out because the vegetarian diet made them feel fatigued, unsatisfied, and even less healthy than their original diet full of meat and junk food? Were the people who completed the study but did not submit to the final measurements of their blood vessels reluctant for no reason, or were they reluctant because they were afraid of the results they would obtain based on how the diet made them feel?

    It is possible that an extremely lowfat diet would provide some benefits simply because it is extremely low in PUFA. Since the plants are so low in fat, the body will produce its own fat from carbohydrates. The primary product of this biochemical pathway is palmitate, which is a saturated fatty acid. Because it is saturated, it is not vulnerable to oxidation. Ironically, one of the benefits of eating a diet so low in fat is that a much greater portion of the total fat obtained is saturated.
    and if you think his work was so good and true why aren't you following his guidelines?
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    But wait, there are people who eat grains all the time that are perfectly healthy. By your logic, that should disprove your "agenda", right? What gives? Do we just ignore the fact that some people eat grains with no problems at all? I don't think that's the most intellectually honest thing to do, in my opinion.
    True, you think it is an "agenda" to want people to be aware of the possibility that some people have health problems that may be caused by eating wheat. I understand that.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    But wait, there are people who eat grains all the time that are perfectly healthy. By your logic, that should disprove your "agenda", right? What gives? Do we just ignore the fact that some people eat grains with no problems at all? I don't think that's the most intellectually honest thing to do, in my opinion.
    There are people whom have worked in asbestos mines most of their lives, that have lived a long time and have not died of an asbestos related disease. Should we dismiss the thousands whom did suffer because there where others who didn't.

    In asbestos's case, yes we do just ignore the fact that exposure poses no problems to some. It mightn't be honest but it saves lives.

    I think basically we all should know the worst case scenario and then make our own decisions from there. With Wheat the majority of society just aren't aware of what might be happening to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    Yeah, I understand that. I try to stay neutral as far as emotions go, and I'm interested in learning as much as I can. I hope I haven't rubbed anyone the wrong way, I just like to debate controversial issues lol
    It's all good, as long as we don't troll each other (resort to personal attacks, Telling people to "just shut up") then these forums are a good place to visit despite differing opinions. If we don't stop the trolling they just become a disgusting cess pool like most internet forums.
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  4. #94
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    As long as arguments are based upon intelligent and/or scientific ideas I will enjoy reading the threads. The problems arise when people pin too much of their self worth to these ideas...if I'm wrong maybe I'm stupid? No you're just in the process of learning or adjusting your viewpoint. It's interesting to watch how people jump all over any comment trying to exaggerate and undermine the meaning. I compared wheat to cigarettes like I might compare a horse to a motorbike...they have similarities, they are not the same. I don't get on a motorcycle and say giddy up and I don't put petrol (gas) in a horse because I am not mentally deficient.
    Debating is fun and informative and I have learned a lot on here, let's not take it personally eh?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    What a bunch of whiners we wheat-o-phobes are! We people who eat wheat and claim to be sick for weeks are just making it up to annoy you, because clearly the fact that 100% of Parisians don't have gluten intolerance is proof it doesn't exist and is a figment of our imaginations.

    We should just shut up and eat the gluten, eh?
    Gluten Intolerance ???? I'been active on the forum for only a couple of days and I can already tell you that you are a major troll. I'm sensitive and alergic to eggs = they are bad for EVERYBODY, some people just don't "know it". (by your stupid logic)

    I'm not arguing that a lot of people get serious problems by eating wheat. I'm just saying that if you do, that is YOUR problem. Don't go projecting that one everybody.

    And, it seems that a lot of people are forgetting the main reason for people to eat wheat. It's not because they're addi ted. It's because it's CHEAP. Let people eat whatever they want, not everyone has the patience, time OR money to worry about their nutrition. Should they? Probably, but trying to "eat healthy" is a full time job. To the majority of us, this is our hobby and it's a looooong journey. But to somone completely new to this it's extemely confusing. He could pickup The China Study first, and end up spending 3 to 4 years being vegan because that was convincing enough.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by sauerKraut View Post
    It's because it's CHEAP.
    Yes, and much more than cheap, it is put EVERYWHERE. When the modern strain of wheat had been engineered to stave off famine worldwide (and this engineering would scare you, much more than the modern GM techniques), it replaced lots of more traditional grains or ingredients (there's even wheat in today's standard soy sauce ... WTF??) . Suddenly, everything had to be made of this much subsidized wheat, everything had to have it in its ingredient list in one form or another. Why ? And I am not naive enough to think that there was no one to notice how addictive this modern strain was by studying consumption data. It's is not linear but a positive feedback loop : eat some, get hooked, eat some more, become more hooked, make it a staple. And when you study the variety of ingredients in a typical western meal, you would be surprised at the common denominator : wheat, PUFA, sugar or the evil trinity of nutritional hell
    Last edited by dkJames; 06-25-2013 at 03:05 AM.

  7. #97
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    Which is why I now cook practically everything from scratch.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annieh View Post
    Which is why I now cook practically everything from scratch.
    Same for me. And being off wheat cleared my mind and laziness so I do it gladly (I thought I did not have the time to cook BEFORE I had 2 young kids ... and here I am today, cooking for the whole family EVERY day after my work ...).

  9. #99
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    Sauerkraut-
    You've only been on the forum a couple of days but feel it is okay to call a major contributor a troll? Bad form.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by janie View Post
    Sauerkraut-
    You've only been on the forum a couple of days but feel it is okay to call a major contributor a troll? Bad form.
    @eKatherine: sorry if I offended you. I'm still not sure if "troll" is an insult or not, I sure did not mean to insult you. It does, however, seem that you have a tendency to deliberately misunderstand other people's posts to fit your arguments, which most of the times are unrelated to the matter being discussed. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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